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Say what you want about the ultimate merits of cryptocurrency (and I'd really like to avoid that debate here), but the actual technology behind Bitcoin is fasci

Say what you want about the ultimate merits of cryptocurrency (and I'd really like to avoid that debate here), but the actual technology behind Bitcoin is fascinating. If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading the original whitepaper. It is elegant, in the mathematical sense. https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

cosmic_quanta 2y ago
Indeed, as a technology, there's a lot to learn from Bitcoin. The possibility that a fully decentralized platform can exist without peer trust still blows my mind.
- karmakurtisaani 2y ago
  Absolutely. Now if it only could exist without all the energy consumption, grifting and money laundering that would be even more mind blowing.
  - npoc 2y ago
    We already have money that doesn't take any energy to create and look where that got us. Gold is proof of work and look at how that has stood the test of time. Ultimately, money is a high-level form of energy. It's only natural that it takes energy of equal value to create it.
- belZaah 2y ago
  That is a common misconception and, it would appear, one that’s purposefully cultivated. You need to trust at least three things: that the math doesn’t have some sort of loophole, that the code you are running does what it sais on the tin and does so flawlessly and that the network works they way it is supposed to with no party gaining sufficient leverage. None of this can be taken for granted. I’m not arguing that you _can’t_ trust these things, I’m saying you must trust them to be true. For a layman, the model really is no different than trusting a bank: they have no capability to validate the math and the software just comes from some central source along with the network governance. In addition, they’d need to trust the exchange they use and there’s little practical difference left with just sticking with money. But, hey, it’s technology so it must be good, right?
  - npoc 2y ago
    The point is that you don't need to trust anyone in particular i.e. trust is not enforced (never a good thing). You get to choose who you trust. You can choose not trust anyone and create and run a bitcoin node with first-hand knowledge of every single component and machine code instruction if you like. Throughout history, fiat currencies have corrupted societies and failed over and over and over again because you simply can't trust humans not to counterfeit it albeit "legally" through QE, bank loans etc.
joshmarlow 2y ago
I'm kind of surprised about how simple a lot of the core concepts are. I think one of the most insightful pieces of the Bitcoin systems is the realization that with proper incentives, human behavior (ie, the miners) can be reliable enough that you can use it as a component in an engineered system. It's really changed how I think about social structures/governments/society as a whole.

cosmic_quanta 2y ago

Indeed, as a technology, there's a lot to learn from Bitcoin. The possibility that a fully decentralized platform can exist without peer trust still blows my mind.

karmakurtisaani 2y ago
Absolutely. Now if it only could exist without all the energy consumption, grifting and money laundering that would be even more mind blowing.
- npoc 2y ago
  We already have money that doesn't take any energy to create and look where that got us. Gold is proof of work and look at how that has stood the test of time. Ultimately, money is a high-level form of energy. It's only natural that it takes energy of equal value to create it.
belZaah 2y ago
That is a common misconception and, it would appear, one that’s purposefully cultivated. You need to trust at least three things: that the math doesn’t have some sort of loophole, that the code you are running does what it sais on the tin and does so flawlessly and that the network works they way it is supposed to with no party gaining sufficient leverage. None of this can be taken for granted. I’m not arguing that you _can’t_ trust these things, I’m saying you must trust them to be true. For a layman, the model really is no different than trusting a bank: they have no capability to validate the math and the software just comes from some central source along with the network governance. In addition, they’d need to trust the exchange they use and there’s little practical difference left with just sticking with money. But, hey, it’s technology so it must be good, right?
- npoc 2y ago
  The point is that you don't need to trust anyone in particular i.e. trust is not enforced (never a good thing). You get to choose who you trust. You can choose not trust anyone and create and run a bitcoin node with first-hand knowledge of every single component and machine code instruction if you like. Throughout history, fiat currencies have corrupted societies and failed over and over and over again because you simply can't trust humans not to counterfeit it albeit "legally" through QE, bank loans etc.

joshmarlow 2y ago

I'm kind of surprised about how simple a lot of the core concepts are. I think one of the most insightful pieces of the Bitcoin systems is the realization that with proper incentives, human behavior (ie, the miners) can be reliable enough that you can use it as a component in an engineered system. It's really changed how I think about social structures/governments/society as a whole.