8 ms·

It really is a werid feeling remembering the internet of my youth and even my 20s and knowing that it will never exist again.

jonathanstrange 2y ago
A mesh network on top of IP with an enforcable license agreement that prohibits all commercial use would suffice to get the old net back. Bonus points if no html/css/js is involved but some sane display technology instead.
- quantified 2y ago
  Without most of what makes the internet useful, sadly.
  - soganess 2y ago
    I'm not sure I like your parent's idea, but it isn't like the regular internet would go away... when you want useful, go there. I wouldn't mind a modern take on geocities sorta system. Where: (1) You can make a webpage that could be about whatever the bleep you wanted it to be about. (2) Only allowed a reduced subset of web technologies. (3) That was free from any advertising or commerce/sales. (4) Was only available to individuals or businesses no larger than closely-held corporation. (5) had clear limitation on AI uses. (6) Had a complete index, categorized and tagged, of all the sites available. But if I am being honest, that is just the nostalgia for the old internet talking.
    - coldpie 2y ago
      Start here: https://blog.kagi.com/small-web https://blog.kagi.com/small-web
    - NoGravitas 2y ago
      I'm already treating the WWW and the commercial internet generally as "Babylon". You have to use it for a lot of stuff (doing commerce, interacting with the government), but why would you willingly use it on your own time?
- theamk 2y ago
  No way. What you are describing is Gemini, but even more niche - a place which is explicitly walled-off from the "big net", which only nostalgic people with right technical skills and a desire to jump some hoops can get to. This is not going to work - as time progresses, there will be less and less nostalgic people who are willing to put up with that complexity. And "non-commercial" part will ensure that there _never_ be an option to say: "I am tired of fixing my homeserver once again, I am going to put up my site to (github|sourceforge|$1 hosting) and forget about it". Compare to early web. First thing that came to my mind was Bowden's Hobby Circuits site [0]. It's designed for advanced beginners - simple projects, nice explanations. And there are no hoops to jump through - I've personally sent the links to it to many people via forums, private emails, and so on. It apparently went down in 2023, but while it was still up, I remember regularly finding it from google searches and via links from other pages. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20220429084959/http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page5.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20220429084959/http://www.bowden...
rootusrootus 2y ago
I'm a little sad for anyone who didn't get to experience the Internet of the twentieth century. It was a unique point in time. I'm ready to pay for a walled garden where the incentives are aligned towards me, instead of against me. I know that puts me in a minority, but I'm tired of the advertising 'net.
- pchristensen 2y ago
  It may be a minority, but you're not alone.
- silisili 2y ago
  I've said it before and say it again, I firmly think AOL was just ahead of its time. Bring it back. Charge me 10 or 20 a month. Give me the walled off chatrooms, forums, IM, articles, keywords, search, etc. Revamp it, make it modern. And make a mobile app. Everyone wanted a free and open Internet, until AI and the bots ruined it all.
  - coldpie 2y ago
    > until AI and the bots ruined it all Well... advertising as a business model ruined it all. They get paid for getting page views, so the business model optimizes for maximum page views at minimum cost of creation. This is the end result of what Google and Facebook have spent the last 20 years building. But I'm sure the engineers who built all this have very nice yachts, so it's all fine.
    - _xiaz 2y ago
      This is the root cause. "AI and Bots" are just two of the many symptoms
  - dcchambers 2y ago
    With every passing day I basically think this is going to be the future of the internet. Many disparate private/semi-private groups while the "public" internet becomes overloaded with AI slop. It's largely already happening in places like Discord. I think the first company that can capture what Discord has but is not wrapped in that "gamer aesthetic" ui/ux is going to do really well.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
I only just put it together but Peter Watt's Rifters series is some epic earth grimdark hard-sci-fi, the first taking place as practically horror, confined deep under water. But my point is, the latter books have this has amazing post-internet, just a ravaged chaotic Wildlands filled with rabid programs & wild viruses. Packets staggering half intact across the virtualscape, hit by digital storms. Our internet isn't quite so amazing, but I see the relationship more subtly with where we have gone, with so so so many generated sites happy to regurgitate information poorly at you or to sell you a slant quietly. Bereft of real sites, real traffic. Watts is a master writer. Maelstrom. First book Starfish is free. https://www.rifters.com/real/STARFISH.htm https://www.rifters.com/real/STARFISH.htm
- CobaltFire 2y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation and free link! Another book on my reading list!
sobkas 2y ago
> It really is a werid feeling remembering the internet of my youth and even my 20s and knowing that it will never exist again. User facing ability to whitelist and blacklist websites in search results, ability to set weights for websites you want to see higher in search results. Spamlists for search results, so even if you don't have knowledge/experience to do it yourself, you can still protect them from spam. It's recreation of e-mail situation, not because it's good, but because www is getting even worse than e-mail.

jonathanstrange 2y ago

A mesh network on top of IP with an enforcable license agreement that prohibits all commercial use would suffice to get the old net back. Bonus points if no html/css/js is involved but some sane display technology instead.

quantified 2y ago
Without most of what makes the internet useful, sadly.
- soganess 2y ago
  I'm not sure I like your parent's idea, but it isn't like the regular internet would go away... when you want useful, go there. I wouldn't mind a modern take on geocities sorta system. Where: (1) You can make a webpage that could be about whatever the bleep you wanted it to be about. (2) Only allowed a reduced subset of web technologies. (3) That was free from any advertising or commerce/sales. (4) Was only available to individuals or businesses no larger than closely-held corporation. (5) had clear limitation on AI uses. (6) Had a complete index, categorized and tagged, of all the sites available. But if I am being honest, that is just the nostalgia for the old internet talking.
  - coldpie 2y ago
    Start here: https://blog.kagi.com/small-web https://blog.kagi.com/small-web
  - NoGravitas 2y ago
    I'm already treating the WWW and the commercial internet generally as "Babylon". You have to use it for a lot of stuff (doing commerce, interacting with the government), but why would you willingly use it on your own time?
theamk 2y ago
No way. What you are describing is Gemini, but even more niche - a place which is explicitly walled-off from the "big net", which only nostalgic people with right technical skills and a desire to jump some hoops can get to. This is not going to work - as time progresses, there will be less and less nostalgic people who are willing to put up with that complexity. And "non-commercial" part will ensure that there _never_ be an option to say: "I am tired of fixing my homeserver once again, I am going to put up my site to (github|sourceforge|$1 hosting) and forget about it". Compare to early web. First thing that came to my mind was Bowden's Hobby Circuits site [0]. It's designed for advanced beginners - simple projects, nice explanations. And there are no hoops to jump through - I've personally sent the links to it to many people via forums, private emails, and so on. It apparently went down in 2023, but while it was still up, I remember regularly finding it from google searches and via links from other pages. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20220429084959/http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page5.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20220429084959/http://www.bowden...

rootusrootus 2y ago

I'm a little sad for anyone who didn't get to experience the Internet of the twentieth century. It was a unique point in time. I'm ready to pay for a walled garden where the incentives are aligned towards me, instead of against me. I know that puts me in a minority, but I'm tired of the advertising 'net.

pchristensen 2y ago
It may be a minority, but you're not alone.
silisili 2y ago
I've said it before and say it again, I firmly think AOL was just ahead of its time. Bring it back. Charge me 10 or 20 a month. Give me the walled off chatrooms, forums, IM, articles, keywords, search, etc. Revamp it, make it modern. And make a mobile app. Everyone wanted a free and open Internet, until AI and the bots ruined it all.
- coldpie 2y ago
  > until AI and the bots ruined it all Well... advertising as a business model ruined it all. They get paid for getting page views, so the business model optimizes for maximum page views at minimum cost of creation. This is the end result of what Google and Facebook have spent the last 20 years building. But I'm sure the engineers who built all this have very nice yachts, so it's all fine.
  - _xiaz 2y ago
    This is the root cause. "AI and Bots" are just two of the many symptoms
- dcchambers 2y ago
  With every passing day I basically think this is going to be the future of the internet. Many disparate private/semi-private groups while the "public" internet becomes overloaded with AI slop. It's largely already happening in places like Discord. I think the first company that can capture what Discord has but is not wrapped in that "gamer aesthetic" ui/ux is going to do really well.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

I only just put it together but Peter Watt's Rifters series is some epic earth grimdark hard-sci-fi, the first taking place as practically horror, confined deep under water. But my point is, the latter books have this has amazing post-internet, just a ravaged chaotic Wildlands filled with rabid programs & wild viruses. Packets staggering half intact across the virtualscape, hit by digital storms. Our internet isn't quite so amazing, but I see the relationship more subtly with where we have gone, with so so so many generated sites happy to regurgitate information poorly at you or to sell you a slant quietly. Bereft of real sites, real traffic. Watts is a master writer. Maelstrom. First book Starfish is free. https://www.rifters.com/real/STARFISH.htm https://www.rifters.com/real/STARFISH.htm

CobaltFire 2y ago
Thanks for the recommendation and free link! Another book on my reading list!

sobkas 2y ago

> It really is a werid feeling remembering the internet of my youth and even my 20s and knowing that it will never exist again. User facing ability to whitelist and blacklist websites in search results, ability to set weights for websites you want to see higher in search results. Spamlists for search results, so even if you don't have knowledge/experience to do it yourself, you can still protect them from spam. It's recreation of e-mail situation, not because it's good, but because www is getting even worse than e-mail.