5 ms·

How much I hate this country, there is corruption every, schools going to pieces, air quality that is crap, people being robbed or killed if they step in the wr

How much I hate this country, there is corruption every, schools going to pieces, air quality that is crap, people being robbed or killed if they step in the wrong corner, unemployment, youth dispersion, wealth inequality, public health going to hell, public transportation going to hell, but somehow the system manages to put their problems under the spotlight and still ask for less rights and more tax cuts

maremmano 2y ago
Born and raised in Italy. Your analysis is too optimistic. The country is doomed under countless other aspects. And the EU will follow. We should run away from this dystopia
- lnxg33k1 2y ago
  Born and raised in Naples, I ran away from here 13 years ago, but you run to US and end up going homeless if you get a flu? There's no hope .-.
  - foobarian 2y ago
    The emigrant dream: run to US and make a ton of money before you get old enough to get sick, then go back and retire in a seaside cottage and get free healthcare.
    - lnxg33k1 2y ago
      I already developed some health problems, that need light treatment so far, but I guess from now on US for me is like untouchable, if I were younger, but when I was younger I was still too left-leaning to accept living in US
      - JamesBarney 2y ago
        I think you might have some misconceptions. The difference in take home pay for devs is quite large between the US and Europe and you can still get insurance with pre-existing conditions in the US with an out of pocket maximum much smaller than the difference in pay.
        Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
        The difference in home pay from a developer in Europe and one in Italy is already very large. Crossing the border from Italy to Europe means 2-4x the salary. Crossing from Europe to North America means another 2x (or more, it depends)
        namaria 2y ago
        Where do you think Italy is?
        LtWorf 2y ago
        In the 1960s
        Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
        I meant from a developer in European Union "not in Italy". I'm Italian, I'm aware of where Italy is
        namaria 2y ago
        Working as a developer in NL, Spain, Germany, Poland, are all vastly different propositions and involve very different salary ranges.
        Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
        Of course! I'm pointing out that if you cross the border, it is easy to find dev jobs that pay a lot more than italian jobs. Salary in Italy have been stagnant for over 10 years (more now. Haven't looked at the job market in a while). At the time, it was 30k gross vs 70k for positions in Germany (and some 90k too, i assume those were outliers). A few of my friends moved to Iceland and hit those salaries (and more) without troubles
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    The healthcare thing in the US is overblown by the number of young high school educated kids on social media. The reality is that if you are a halfway competent worker, and you move to a populated area, you can pretty easily find a job with health insurance. I work in manufacturing and all the manufacturers offer health care to all their full time workers. The bar for those jobs is basically "Have a pulse, show up to work, and be able to build a 10 yr old level Lego set". Pay is usually $17-22/hr, day one no experience. Just don't pick the $30/month healthcare option. That's how people who "work full time with insurance" end up with that "here is my $50,000 bill for falling off a ladder, thanks America". If you can stomach the $200 to $250/month plans, you will get better healthcare than anywhere in Europe.
    - nickjj 2y ago
      > The reality is that if you are a halfway competent worker, and you move to a populated area, you can pretty easily find a job with health insurance. This is absolutely true, especially for tech workers but doesn't it concern you that you need to be a cog in the machine to get this benefit? If you want to work for yourself ("the American dream") you either have to risk having no insurance or pay $700+ a month for baseline coverage for 1 person (price varies by state). There was even a time a few years ago where you had to pay a federal penalty if you didn't have medical insurance. I forgot the exact year, maybe it was 2016 or so but I remember the government forcing me to pay around ~$3,000 for literally not having insurance.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - mindslight 2y ago
      Have you ever needed any significant healthcare in the US? Putting aside the financial extortion that attracts the most attention, the overall system has been thoroughly trashed by the "insurance" cartels. Appointments have been diced up into 10-15 minute blips, often with a different doctor every time (group practice). You get just enough time for some pleasantries, they tell you their pre-canned suggestion, and then you get one or maybe two questions before they start pushing you out the door with a broom. And that's presenting as a reasonably intelligent person with means. Never mind having to advocate for someone in the hospital and be continually chummy with the nurses so they see your family member as a person worth their stretched attention rather than just another body to keep warm and checklisted, while also nudging them to the mitigate the systematic incompetence but not too much lest you end up on the shit list. I can't speak to Europe's systems though. Perhaps they're even worse.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
    I don't know, we had a guy from Canada working at our US company. He fell ill with some kind of a mental problem, spent 2 months in the hospital. Didn't pay a dime, and continued to draw salary while figuring out his mental problems. Left for Canada upon release.
krtha 2y ago
From the outside (I'm not Italian) it looks like Meloni did almost nothing. Lots of promises, but after the election first von der Leyen threatened her, then Meloni did a couple of photo-ops with Biden, Macron and Scholz. Then she was part of the club. It always goes the same way.
- lnxg33k1 2y ago
  Yeah, the Meloni's cabinet is really a cabinet in the italian sense of the word
- LtWorf 2y ago
  After years of promising italy first, she did USA first.
  - lnxg33k1 2y ago
    Guess they meant little Italy in new york
LtWorf 2y ago
Remember that the corruption index is just about how much corruption people "think" there is. And italians are pessimists, so you get this idea. In sweden or germany they're just as corrupt, but also believe to belong to a superior race, so keep repeating to themselves that these things only happen to those people with dark skin, not to them! Plenty of corruption around me in sweden goes completely unpunished. They just pin it all on the low level guy (who's often an immigrant) and never involve any higher up (who's often not an immigrant).
- 0xCAP 2y ago
  Absolutely true. Italians love selling the story of how corrupted their country is. Despite it having roots in reality, it's no worse than most other eu countries.
frankohn 2y ago
This also happens because the Italian television dumbs people down. Now we have also the social media so there is very little hope things will get any better.
modmodmod 2y ago
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence

maremmano 2y ago

Born and raised in Italy. Your analysis is too optimistic. The country is doomed under countless other aspects. And the EU will follow. We should run away from this dystopia

lnxg33k1 2y ago
Born and raised in Naples, I ran away from here 13 years ago, but you run to US and end up going homeless if you get a flu? There's no hope .-.
- foobarian 2y ago
  The emigrant dream: run to US and make a ton of money before you get old enough to get sick, then go back and retire in a seaside cottage and get free healthcare.
  - lnxg33k1 2y ago
    I already developed some health problems, that need light treatment so far, but I guess from now on US for me is like untouchable, if I were younger, but when I was younger I was still too left-leaning to accept living in US
    - JamesBarney 2y ago
      I think you might have some misconceptions. The difference in take home pay for devs is quite large between the US and Europe and you can still get insurance with pre-existing conditions in the US with an out of pocket maximum much smaller than the difference in pay.
      - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
        The difference in home pay from a developer in Europe and one in Italy is already very large. Crossing the border from Italy to Europe means 2-4x the salary. Crossing from Europe to North America means another 2x (or more, it depends)
        namaria 2y ago
        Where do you think Italy is?
        LtWorf 2y ago
        In the 1960s
        Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
        I meant from a developer in European Union "not in Italy". I'm Italian, I'm aware of where Italy is
        namaria 2y ago
        Working as a developer in NL, Spain, Germany, Poland, are all vastly different propositions and involve very different salary ranges.
        Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
        Of course! I'm pointing out that if you cross the border, it is easy to find dev jobs that pay a lot more than italian jobs. Salary in Italy have been stagnant for over 10 years (more now. Haven't looked at the job market in a while). At the time, it was 30k gross vs 70k for positions in Germany (and some 90k too, i assume those were outliers). A few of my friends moved to Iceland and hit those salaries (and more) without troubles
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  The healthcare thing in the US is overblown by the number of young high school educated kids on social media. The reality is that if you are a halfway competent worker, and you move to a populated area, you can pretty easily find a job with health insurance. I work in manufacturing and all the manufacturers offer health care to all their full time workers. The bar for those jobs is basically "Have a pulse, show up to work, and be able to build a 10 yr old level Lego set". Pay is usually $17-22/hr, day one no experience. Just don't pick the $30/month healthcare option. That's how people who "work full time with insurance" end up with that "here is my $50,000 bill for falling off a ladder, thanks America". If you can stomach the $200 to $250/month plans, you will get better healthcare than anywhere in Europe.
  - nickjj 2y ago
    > The reality is that if you are a halfway competent worker, and you move to a populated area, you can pretty easily find a job with health insurance. This is absolutely true, especially for tech workers but doesn't it concern you that you need to be a cog in the machine to get this benefit? If you want to work for yourself ("the American dream") you either have to risk having no insurance or pay $700+ a month for baseline coverage for 1 person (price varies by state). There was even a time a few years ago where you had to pay a federal penalty if you didn't have medical insurance. I forgot the exact year, maybe it was 2016 or so but I remember the government forcing me to pay around ~$3,000 for literally not having insurance.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - mindslight 2y ago
    Have you ever needed any significant healthcare in the US? Putting aside the financial extortion that attracts the most attention, the overall system has been thoroughly trashed by the "insurance" cartels. Appointments have been diced up into 10-15 minute blips, often with a different doctor every time (group practice). You get just enough time for some pleasantries, they tell you their pre-canned suggestion, and then you get one or maybe two questions before they start pushing you out the door with a broom. And that's presenting as a reasonably intelligent person with means. Never mind having to advocate for someone in the hospital and be continually chummy with the nurses so they see your family member as a person worth their stretched attention rather than just another body to keep warm and checklisted, while also nudging them to the mitigate the systematic incompetence but not too much lest you end up on the shit list. I can't speak to Europe's systems though. Perhaps they're even worse.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
  I don't know, we had a guy from Canada working at our US company. He fell ill with some kind of a mental problem, spent 2 months in the hospital. Didn't pay a dime, and continued to draw salary while figuring out his mental problems. Left for Canada upon release.

krtha 2y ago

From the outside (I'm not Italian) it looks like Meloni did almost nothing. Lots of promises, but after the election first von der Leyen threatened her, then Meloni did a couple of photo-ops with Biden, Macron and Scholz. Then she was part of the club. It always goes the same way.

lnxg33k1 2y ago
Yeah, the Meloni's cabinet is really a cabinet in the italian sense of the word
LtWorf 2y ago
After years of promising italy first, she did USA first.
- lnxg33k1 2y ago
  Guess they meant little Italy in new york

LtWorf 2y ago

Remember that the corruption index is just about how much corruption people "think" there is. And italians are pessimists, so you get this idea. In sweden or germany they're just as corrupt, but also believe to belong to a superior race, so keep repeating to themselves that these things only happen to those people with dark skin, not to them! Plenty of corruption around me in sweden goes completely unpunished. They just pin it all on the low level guy (who's often an immigrant) and never involve any higher up (who's often not an immigrant).

0xCAP 2y ago
Absolutely true. Italians love selling the story of how corrupted their country is. Despite it having roots in reality, it's no worse than most other eu countries.

frankohn 2y ago

This also happens because the Italian television dumbs people down. Now we have also the social media so there is very little hope things will get any better.

modmodmod 2y ago

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence