8 ms·

New Italian Law Threatens ISPs with Prison over Piracy Reporting Failures

73 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

napolux 2y ago
all true, unfortunately.
dfxm12 2y ago
I found this funny: Interestingly, complying with Italian law could mean violating laws elsewhere
- nickff 2y ago
  It’s the case with many laws when strictly applied to international activities.
guappa 2y ago
Despite Berlusconi himself being dead, his family still has media interests and is funding the parties that are currently in power. This is the way of returning the favour.
- lou1306 2y ago
  This is not really related to Mediaset, but rather to illegal streaming of football matches.
  - guappa 2y ago
    And mediaset has never ever transmitted a football match, right? -_-' The current government has done other laws in that sense. Which incidentally allow blocking any website.
    - auguzanellato 2y ago
      Current football right holders (Sky, DAZN) have little to share with Mediaset
lnxg33k1 2y ago
How much I hate this country, there is corruption every, schools going to pieces, air quality that is crap, people being robbed or killed if they step in the wrong corner, unemployment, youth dispersion, wealth inequality, public health going to hell, public transportation going to hell, but somehow the system manages to put their problems under the spotlight and still ask for less rights and more tax cuts
- maremmano 2y ago
  Born and raised in Italy. Your analysis is too optimistic. The country is doomed under countless other aspects. And the EU will follow. We should run away from this dystopia
  - lnxg33k1 2y ago
    Born and raised in Naples, I ran away from here 13 years ago, but you run to US and end up going homeless if you get a flu? There's no hope .-.
    - foobarian 2y ago
      The emigrant dream: run to US and make a ton of money before you get old enough to get sick, then go back and retire in a seaside cottage and get free healthcare.
      - lnxg33k1 2y ago
        I already developed some health problems, that need light treatment so far, but I guess from now on US for me is like untouchable, if I were younger, but when I was younger I was still too left-leaning to accept living in US
        JamesBarney 2y ago
        I think you might have some misconceptions. The difference in take home pay for devs is quite large between the US and Europe and you can still get insurance with pre-existing conditions in the US with an out of pocket maximum much smaller than the difference in pay.
average_r_user 2y ago
Italy's hierarchy of power: Football League SERIE A (Soccer for the US friends) Government
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
  This seems crazy, but it is. Literally nobody cared about piracy until it started touching soccer
- rurban 2y ago
  Wrong. Judges are independent there, so they rank higher than the government.
  - Two4 2y ago
    Ah ok, here's an updated hierarchy: Football SERIE A Judiciary Mafia | Government Policia Public Non-italians
    - rurban 2y ago
      Better. But you are missing media. The last fascist emperor came to power because of his media conglomerate.
      - 0xCAP 2y ago
        Who?
crest 2y ago
I would love to see the streaming providers cry should the handful relevant ISPs decide on collective action and block all sports streaming services because obviously allowing sports streaming is a giant liability. /s
aaomidi 2y ago
Legitimately do not get why Europe is so big on IP. Bigger than the actual producers of IP.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Lobbying. Entertainment, Telecom (Broadcasting, Media), and Pharma are overrepresented in most members of the EU, and the tech industry is underrepresented in much of the EU. The US doesn't have similarly as draconian regulations because tech companies like Google and Netflix backed the EFF in lobbying against these kinds of regulations.
- olliej 2y ago
  vs the US? The US is the reason why companies and sites the world over have to deal with DMCA triggered censorship, where an objectively and clearly erroneous (even fraudulent) notice must be responded to with a functionally non-rescindable take down that guarantees two weeks of content suppression with no compensation for the victims, and no penalties for the perpetrators. You could say "google, etc have could check first" but the volume of notices they receive mean it is not fair to them either - checking every single claim manually, in the knowledge that if they ever get it wrong (even in good faith) they become a corporation engaging in piracy (so the 100k/violation limit applies afaict). The fact that Google, et al seem unable to require a confirmed US contact, and correctly filed forms is similarly absurd -- I think this came up in the past, and G had said a bunch of "legitimate" (as in major corporations that had no excuse) DMCA filers keep filing incorrectly but were threatening lawsuits if G pushed back on them. The reality is the DMCA needs to be amended (I am under no illusions of it ever being repealed, and to an extent it does enable platforms like YouTube, etc to exist) to: * Require DMCA requests to be filed by entities with a confirmed legal US presence (allowing a delay in take down for confirmation of identity with a new reporter) - i.e. an entity that can be sued in the US, even if just a law firm, * Allow responders to enforce stricter policies on requests for organizations that have made "mistakes" in the past (maybe starting with allowing a delay to permit a response from the target prior to takedown, requiring a bond, all the way through to disallowing requests from organizations and individuals that have made sufficient false claims - currently it does not matter how many erroneous claims are made, claims must basically be taken as accurate because they've been declared true) * Allow delayed takedowns for fair use cases (ie. if the target content is a small part of the target content, allow someone to look at it manually to see if it's plausibly fair use, or require a deposit from the reporter to cover the penalty if the target is found to be fair use) - basically it's more reasonable to say "take down this post that is just my music/video/movie immediately" than "take down this 15 minute post because it has a 30s sample from my music/video/movie immediately". Especially when the latter is often used to censor criticism. * Allow the responding organization and the subject of the takedown to separately receive compensation for erroneous and fraudulent claims, including associated legal costs. I think you need both to be able to demand compensation separately so that people targeting non-US victims can still be subjected to penalties and costs via google when the victim cannot sue, and so that they victims can also get compensated. * Require prosecution of perjured DMCA claims (again, this is why confirmed US legal presence should be required for these claims) But none of that will happen :-/
olliej 2y ago
Are there prison penalties for false claims? No? Huh. Weird. (Sorry, I can imagine their being penalties for an ISP/site operator erroneously reporting something, but nothing for media companies)

73 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

napolux 2y ago

all true, unfortunately.

dfxm12 2y ago

I found this funny: Interestingly, complying with Italian law could mean violating laws elsewhere

nickff 2y ago
It’s the case with many laws when strictly applied to international activities.

guappa 2y ago

Despite Berlusconi himself being dead, his family still has media interests and is funding the parties that are currently in power. This is the way of returning the favour.

lou1306 2y ago
This is not really related to Mediaset, but rather to illegal streaming of football matches.
- guappa 2y ago
  And mediaset has never ever transmitted a football match, right? -_-' The current government has done other laws in that sense. Which incidentally allow blocking any website.
  - auguzanellato 2y ago
    Current football right holders (Sky, DAZN) have little to share with Mediaset

lnxg33k1 2y ago

How much I hate this country, there is corruption every, schools going to pieces, air quality that is crap, people being robbed or killed if they step in the wrong corner, unemployment, youth dispersion, wealth inequality, public health going to hell, public transportation going to hell, but somehow the system manages to put their problems under the spotlight and still ask for less rights and more tax cuts

maremmano 2y ago
Born and raised in Italy. Your analysis is too optimistic. The country is doomed under countless other aspects. And the EU will follow. We should run away from this dystopia
- lnxg33k1 2y ago
  Born and raised in Naples, I ran away from here 13 years ago, but you run to US and end up going homeless if you get a flu? There's no hope .-.
  - foobarian 2y ago
    The emigrant dream: run to US and make a ton of money before you get old enough to get sick, then go back and retire in a seaside cottage and get free healthcare.
    - lnxg33k1 2y ago
      I already developed some health problems, that need light treatment so far, but I guess from now on US for me is like untouchable, if I were younger, but when I was younger I was still too left-leaning to accept living in US
      - JamesBarney 2y ago
        I think you might have some misconceptions. The difference in take home pay for devs is quite large between the US and Europe and you can still get insurance with pre-existing conditions in the US with an out of pocket maximum much smaller than the difference in pay.

average_r_user 2y ago

Italy's hierarchy of power: Football League SERIE A (Soccer for the US friends) Government

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
This seems crazy, but it is. Literally nobody cared about piracy until it started touching soccer
rurban 2y ago
Wrong. Judges are independent there, so they rank higher than the government.
- Two4 2y ago
  Ah ok, here's an updated hierarchy: Football SERIE A Judiciary Mafia | Government Policia Public Non-italians
  - rurban 2y ago
    Better. But you are missing media. The last fascist emperor came to power because of his media conglomerate.
    - 0xCAP 2y ago
      Who?

crest 2y ago

I would love to see the streaming providers cry should the handful relevant ISPs decide on collective action and block all sports streaming services because obviously allowing sports streaming is a giant liability. /s

aaomidi 2y ago

Legitimately do not get why Europe is so big on IP. Bigger than the actual producers of IP.

alephnerd 2y ago
Lobbying. Entertainment, Telecom (Broadcasting, Media), and Pharma are overrepresented in most members of the EU, and the tech industry is underrepresented in much of the EU. The US doesn't have similarly as draconian regulations because tech companies like Google and Netflix backed the EFF in lobbying against these kinds of regulations.
olliej 2y ago
vs the US? The US is the reason why companies and sites the world over have to deal with DMCA triggered censorship, where an objectively and clearly erroneous (even fraudulent) notice must be responded to with a functionally non-rescindable take down that guarantees two weeks of content suppression with no compensation for the victims, and no penalties for the perpetrators. You could say "google, etc have could check first" but the volume of notices they receive mean it is not fair to them either - checking every single claim manually, in the knowledge that if they ever get it wrong (even in good faith) they become a corporation engaging in piracy (so the 100k/violation limit applies afaict). The fact that Google, et al seem unable to require a confirmed US contact, and correctly filed forms is similarly absurd -- I think this came up in the past, and G had said a bunch of "legitimate" (as in major corporations that had no excuse) DMCA filers keep filing incorrectly but were threatening lawsuits if G pushed back on them. The reality is the DMCA needs to be amended (I am under no illusions of it ever being repealed, and to an extent it does enable platforms like YouTube, etc to exist) to: * Require DMCA requests to be filed by entities with a confirmed legal US presence (allowing a delay in take down for confirmation of identity with a new reporter) - i.e. an entity that can be sued in the US, even if just a law firm, * Allow responders to enforce stricter policies on requests for organizations that have made "mistakes" in the past (maybe starting with allowing a delay to permit a response from the target prior to takedown, requiring a bond, all the way through to disallowing requests from organizations and individuals that have made sufficient false claims - currently it does not matter how many erroneous claims are made, claims must basically be taken as accurate because they've been declared true) * Allow delayed takedowns for fair use cases (ie. if the target content is a small part of the target content, allow someone to look at it manually to see if it's plausibly fair use, or require a deposit from the reporter to cover the penalty if the target is found to be fair use) - basically it's more reasonable to say "take down this post that is just my music/video/movie immediately" than "take down this 15 minute post because it has a 30s sample from my music/video/movie immediately". Especially when the latter is often used to censor criticism. * Allow the responding organization and the subject of the takedown to separately receive compensation for erroneous and fraudulent claims, including associated legal costs. I think you need both to be able to demand compensation separately so that people targeting non-US victims can still be subjected to penalties and costs via google when the victim cannot sue, and so that they victims can also get compensated. * Require prosecution of perjured DMCA claims (again, this is why confirmed US legal presence should be required for these claims) But none of that will happen :-/

olliej 2y ago

Are there prison penalties for false claims? No? Huh. Weird. (Sorry, I can imagine their being penalties for an ISP/site operator erroneously reporting something, but nothing for media companies)