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Hey Jeff, let's throw down the gauntlet. You're obviously an experienced developer. I've been in the game for over 11years so should have enough experience to
by xd 14y ago
Hey Jeff, let's throw down the gauntlet. You're obviously an experienced developer. I've been in the game for over 11years so should have enough experience to tackle you on this bigoted rant.
You choose a problem that you think PHP can't solve[well]. You solve it using your high level language of choice and I'll solve it using PHP. Let's compare the outcome on reliability, ease of re-factoring, speed, whatever .. then, when it becomes apparent that there is little in the way of difference of the end product let's stop the fucking childishness.
- EvilTerran 14y ago"fucking childishness" I love that sort of phrase, I really do. It's so ... lacking in self-awareness. Really tells you a lot about the attitude of whoever utters it.
- xd 14y agoCool story, bro. Edit: OK, I'll bite. Um, so you're telling me, I lack self awareness because I said "fucking childishness" .. and that you understand me on some level because of it. You might want to get down of that high horse of yours.
- EvilTerran 14y agoSo, you're calling people "childish", yet you're the one tossing out coarse language, then dismissing people with trite memes like "cool story bro"? In a community that prides itself on its etiquette, meme-free nature, and other forms of maturity, no less? Yep, you lack self-awareness.
- xd 14y agoBack up there EvilTerran. Let's take a couple of steps back in this thread. I originally took issue with the OP because his piece was nothing short of a rant. I've spent the last 11+ years of my professional life developing with PHP. So I expect far more than what I read from someone like Jeff .. and was reasonable enough to let him challenge me to prove the errors of my way. I also took issue because he didn't point out any actual problems or solutions .. rather he just blanketed PHP as a problem in and of itself and his solution was to replace it. This is not the kind of thing I'd expect from someone like Jeff who runs a site that points out in great detail programming flaws not just making hearsay. Anyway, then you came along taking offence to my use of the f word. I'm sorry you take offence to harsh language but that's not my problem. Your first response to me added NOTHING to the conversation apart from your own very strange opinion of me because of two words I had said. I figured you where a troll so gave you the response I did. Then I thought hang on, let's check this guy out and see what we can glean from his past posts. You have been active for almost 100 days and your posts seem to point to you being a nice enough guy, so I figured you deserved more than my first general reply. I also note that you just got your CS degree. Well done, and I hope you have a long fruitful career, I really do.
- EvilTerran 14y agoOkay, I think I see how this worked out. Terms like "bigoted rant" and "fucking childishness" always give me the distinct impression the poster isn't interested in reasonable discussion -- particularly on HN, given the usual monocles-and-earl-grey manner of conversations here. In my experience, that sort of language only irritates whoever may disagree, and so lowers the level of debate, while achieving nothing of value. As such, angry words on the internet always feel immature to me, so the phrase "fucking childish" struck me as amusingly ironic. Your challenge to Mr Atwood also came across as facetious; I find it very unlikely that a busy man like him has the time for a code-off, but I could see someone claiming his failure to accept a challenge as a victory by default; and even if he did take you up on it, it would prove very little. As such, your first post read to me as little more than a troll itself, so I felt I was only being flippant in kind. To be honest, I would have downmodded your first post and left it at that, had that button appeared to me yet. Instead, in hindsight, I guess I thought I was (from my perspective) "feeding the trolls"; itself far from the best way to improve the level of dialog, I freely admit. It wouldn't help that I very likely came to this thread spoiling for a fight with those defending PHP; it's been a conduit for many headaches since I finished my degree & got a job. Peace.
- xd 14y agoIt's a shame you are suffering from what I can only assume are poor PHP code bases. This is unfortunately very common with PHP because of it's popularity. I've dealt with my fair share of poor PHP code bases, and have experienced PHP mature over the years into a very capable language; so know how to wield it to the best of it's abilities. If you ever need any advice feel free to email me.
- seiji 14y agoCongratulations! You just Blub Paradox'd yourself. At this point in your knowledge cycle, you are unable to understand something more complex than what you already know. Knowledge is power. Defending your own knowledge by refusing to expand and learn something new is cutting yourself off at the knees (or fingers, as it may be).
- xd 14y agoI'm sorry, but at what point did I say I was refusing to "expand and learn something new"?
- prodigal_erik 14y agoThe subtext of your challenge is that no language could possibly exist that is substantially better than PHP at expressing a solution to any problem, which would mean there's little to be gained by learning anything else. That's not a claim I'd ever make about my favorite languages, even though nobody makes huge lists of indefensible design gaffes in those.
- eru 14y agoHave you done any Agda, recently?
- prodigal_erik 14y agoI for one will freely admit that my Haskell still sucks and so I presume I'm not even smart enough yet to start on Agda. Do you recommend it? Do you find it to be (one of) the highest known point on the power continuum?
- eru 14y agoOh, I'm still stuck at Haskell, which doesn't suck but could be better. A friend of mine did some playing around with automated proof assistants, and I've been to some talks about seL4, a microkernel prototyped in Haskell, written in C, and proven correct in Isabelle. From Haskell you can of course go the route to Agda or Isabelle. But Curry is also worth a visit, it combines logical and functional languages. I, for one, am still learning how to do left-fold based IO in Haskell with enumerators, at the moment.
- sellandb 14y agoWrite a multi-threaded program in PHP, I will write one in ... well pretty much anything else.