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There is a massive push to demonize drinking, you are seeing it everywhere. The numbers are always shocking but then you look at absolute increases, and a 100%

There is a massive push to demonize drinking, you are seeing it everywhere. The numbers are always shocking but then you look at absolute increases, and a 100% increase in death from XYZ suddenly isn’t so bad. Like everything, moderation is key. It’s incredible to me that the internet has become so negative on alcohol and so cavalier about marijuana. The latter is far worse for me in terms of productivity decrease and hangovers than alcohol. YMMV but the nuance and individual body results are heavily skewed in 2024

jamal-kumar 2y ago
It's also a form of solvent abuse that causes something close to 3 million deaths a year [1] from not only its direct effects on the body but via accidents and violence caused by its effects on the mind. To get numbers here: "A new report from the World Health Organization (WHO) highlights that 2.6 million deaths per year were attributable to alcohol consumption, accounting for 4.7% of all deaths, and 0.6 million deaths to psychoactive drug use. Notably, 2 million of alcohol and 0.4 million of drug-attributable deaths were among men." I don't really think anyone has to "demonize" the stuff, some people really pickle their brains in it, and then die [1] https://www.who.int/news/item/25-06-2024-over-3-million-annual-deaths-due-to-alcohol-and-drug-use-majority-among-men https://www.who.int/news/item/25-06-2024-over-3-million-annu...
- kristianp 2y ago
  Solvent abuse is something different, such a glue sniffing.
  - jamal-kumar 2y ago
    It readily dissolves organic tissues - Especially things like your stomach lining, or myelination in the brain. There's even some paint thinners which contain it. Just because people have been accustomed to it for thousands of years doesn't make these realities go away. I remember one guy who drank a single light beer when we were hanging out watching the superbowl after he had already been told by the doctor not to drink anything from going hard in his younger days, and the next morning I got to take the day off work to bring him to the hospital to have his esophogas stapled up.
    - captain_coffee 2y ago
      That one guy definitely did not have a single light beer if he ended up at the hospital for oesophageal bleeding.
      - jamal-kumar 2y ago
        I was with him for over 24 hours, it was a single light beer that caused him to puke blood the next day. It probably wasn't the ribs we ate
mmaunder 2y ago
As a counter point the growth in non-alcoholic beers is staggering. Also non-alcoholic spirits (believe it or not) are going to be a big deal according to a buddy in the space.
- __s 2y ago
  If I could get a mojito mocktail that stung I'd be so pleased. Current mocktails taste like juice. Mojito mocktail is closest atm since it can be lower sugar & lean on mint/lime for kick, but still something missing
  - unethical_ban 2y ago
    I think the "phony negroni" and Ghia brand NA drinks have a kind of Italian herbal punch to them that feels good on the tongue if you are someone who wants a boozy feel vs. sweet/juicy.
- cyberax 2y ago
  I'm really surprised that Kvass ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass - a fermented non-alcoholic drink) is not popular in the Western world. It tastes much better than beer.
  - jamal-kumar 2y ago
    It's about as alcoholic as perhaps kombucha or maybe a strong kefir, somewhere between 1-2 percent. With no tolerance, I definitely catch a nice little buzz if I have any of these things, they're about all I will enjoy at this point though. There's speculation that letting kids drink the stuff has been a contributor to heavy alcoholism in the former soviet union [1] [1] https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article-abstract/44/5/529/182649 https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article-abstract/44/5/529/18...
    - cyberax 2y ago
      Kvass can be as low as 0.5% alcohol by weight, but traditional methods put it around 1%. The widely sold kvass in Soviet Union was 1% ABV. I don't drink at all, so I'm pretty sensitive to the effects of alcohol. I can't detect them at all after drinking kvass. I could feel them after drinking a home-made and even some store-bought kombucha. > There's speculation that letting kids drink the stuff has been a contributor to heavy alcoholism in the former soviet union I doubt it. Other countries also have a tradition of fermented drinks, often based on milk, that are just as alcoholic.
thefz 2y ago
> It’s incredible to me that the internet has become so negative on alcohol and so cavalier about marijuana. I have several friends who smoke daily, and it shows. It really does, they are s l o w. Tell them, and they get super defensive.
lelanthran 2y ago
> There is a massive push to demonize drinking, you are seeing it everywhere. I don't see this push, but I would not be surprised if I did. If alcohol were only invented today, there isn't a single civilised country in the world that would legalise it. The reason it is legal right now is because it was grandfathered into law because humans have had alcohol since before we had writing! The victim-count of alcohol dwarves everything else, even smoking when smoking popularity was at its peak; why are you surprised to see a push to demonise it?

jamal-kumar 2y ago

It's also a form of solvent abuse that causes something close to 3 million deaths a year [1] from not only its direct effects on the body but via accidents and violence caused by its effects on the mind. To get numbers here: "A new report from the World Health Organization (WHO) highlights that 2.6 million deaths per year were attributable to alcohol consumption, accounting for 4.7% of all deaths, and 0.6 million deaths to psychoactive drug use. Notably, 2 million of alcohol and 0.4 million of drug-attributable deaths were among men." I don't really think anyone has to "demonize" the stuff, some people really pickle their brains in it, and then die [1] https://www.who.int/news/item/25-06-2024-over-3-million-annual-deaths-due-to-alcohol-and-drug-use-majority-among-men https://www.who.int/news/item/25-06-2024-over-3-million-annu...

kristianp 2y ago
Solvent abuse is something different, such a glue sniffing.
- jamal-kumar 2y ago
  It readily dissolves organic tissues - Especially things like your stomach lining, or myelination in the brain. There's even some paint thinners which contain it. Just because people have been accustomed to it for thousands of years doesn't make these realities go away. I remember one guy who drank a single light beer when we were hanging out watching the superbowl after he had already been told by the doctor not to drink anything from going hard in his younger days, and the next morning I got to take the day off work to bring him to the hospital to have his esophogas stapled up.
  - captain_coffee 2y ago
    That one guy definitely did not have a single light beer if he ended up at the hospital for oesophageal bleeding.
    - jamal-kumar 2y ago
      I was with him for over 24 hours, it was a single light beer that caused him to puke blood the next day. It probably wasn't the ribs we ate

mmaunder 2y ago

As a counter point the growth in non-alcoholic beers is staggering. Also non-alcoholic spirits (believe it or not) are going to be a big deal according to a buddy in the space.

__s 2y ago
If I could get a mojito mocktail that stung I'd be so pleased. Current mocktails taste like juice. Mojito mocktail is closest atm since it can be lower sugar & lean on mint/lime for kick, but still something missing
- unethical_ban 2y ago
  I think the "phony negroni" and Ghia brand NA drinks have a kind of Italian herbal punch to them that feels good on the tongue if you are someone who wants a boozy feel vs. sweet/juicy.
cyberax 2y ago
I'm really surprised that Kvass ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass - a fermented non-alcoholic drink) is not popular in the Western world. It tastes much better than beer.
- jamal-kumar 2y ago
  It's about as alcoholic as perhaps kombucha or maybe a strong kefir, somewhere between 1-2 percent. With no tolerance, I definitely catch a nice little buzz if I have any of these things, they're about all I will enjoy at this point though. There's speculation that letting kids drink the stuff has been a contributor to heavy alcoholism in the former soviet union [1] [1] https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article-abstract/44/5/529/182649 https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article-abstract/44/5/529/18...
  - cyberax 2y ago
    Kvass can be as low as 0.5% alcohol by weight, but traditional methods put it around 1%. The widely sold kvass in Soviet Union was 1% ABV. I don't drink at all, so I'm pretty sensitive to the effects of alcohol. I can't detect them at all after drinking kvass. I could feel them after drinking a home-made and even some store-bought kombucha. > There's speculation that letting kids drink the stuff has been a contributor to heavy alcoholism in the former soviet union I doubt it. Other countries also have a tradition of fermented drinks, often based on milk, that are just as alcoholic.

thefz 2y ago

> It’s incredible to me that the internet has become so negative on alcohol and so cavalier about marijuana. I have several friends who smoke daily, and it shows. It really does, they are s l o w. Tell them, and they get super defensive.

lelanthran 2y ago

> There is a massive push to demonize drinking, you are seeing it everywhere. I don't see this push, but I would not be surprised if I did. If alcohol were only invented today, there isn't a single civilised country in the world that would legalise it. The reason it is legal right now is because it was grandfathered into law because humans have had alcohol since before we had writing! The victim-count of alcohol dwarves everything else, even smoking when smoking popularity was at its peak; why are you surprised to see a push to demonise it?