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Modern cars in the US, especially EVs it seems, are not only dropping AM radio but also now SiriusXM satellite radio. I was shocked to discover that the "Sirius

Modern cars in the US, especially EVs it seems, are not only dropping AM radio but also now SiriusXM satellite radio. I was shocked to discover that the "Sirius" radio on many cars I have been looking at recently was merely an app that streamed over the cellular connection. I find this mildly terrifying. In an emergency, cellular will be the first to go. It doesn't even work reliably when everything is well.

jessriedel 2y ago
Yea, even if the major space powers Kesslerize all the satellites (like Starlink) in low-Earth orbit, the civilian geostationary sats like Sirius XM will likely be flying. (Geostationary sats can, I think, only be brought down individually with anti-satellite weapons, and that would presumably be prohibitively expensive for all of them.)
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Sure, but who's going to pay for this? Satellites (especially geostationary ones) are expensive. And SiriusXM doesn't provide a worthwhile service that compels enough people to subscribe; it's a wonder it's still in business. The main function of a music subscription service is to listen to music, but have you ever listened to SiriusXM? The audio is so compressed that it sounds terrible.
  - jessriedel 2y ago
    Yea I agree. AM seems like the most viable.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      Exactly: AM doesn't require a network of satellites and terrestrial repeaters to be maintained just to provide some emergency public-service info with lousy audio quality. AM does this just fine, for very little cost on both sides (transmitter and receiver).
- echoangle 2y ago
  Not sure if anyone would ever consider doing this due to the collateral damage, but I think a retrograde GEO orbit would work fine for destroying a lot of GEO Sats. You would need to spread out your impactor by detonating it but the fragments would have 6 km/s relative to the GEO Sats.
  - jessriedel 2y ago
    Hmm, thanks, that sounds plausible enough. Have you seen this possibility discussed anywhere?
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Not really, and I couldn’t find something like that from a quick googling. Maybe it wouldn’t work as good as I would think. I’m not sure if it’s really a realistic threat anyways, because polluting GEO is basically half way to a nuclear war. Kesslerizing LEO is probably bad but not forever and more easily avoided by picking another orbit. Making GEO impossible would really annoy every country out there.
gwbas1c 2y ago
I think it'd be fine if Sirius didn't require a subscription. The subscription nature turned it into a niche business. (And gosh Sirius's salesmen are annoying a-holes when they call you up to get you to subscribe. The last time I bought a car with a Sirius radio I had to insist that I wouldn't get any calls from Sirius to subscribe.)
maxerickson 2y ago
Is there a realistic scenario where cell phones are down and there is meaningful coordination being done over SiriusXM? I don't particularly expect that there would be any effort to lean on AM either.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  Maybe not meaningful coordination, but if the whole citys power shuts down, you'd still like some news about what happened, why is there no power, no internet, no nothing.... war? farmer plowing too deep? ddos attack on the infrastructure? In such cases, having long distance broadcasting service is great.
  - ta1243 2y ago
    AM radio then. If you want internet, get a starlink.
  - maxerickson 2y ago
    So a localized total outage? Weird that the farmer had no idea everything was in the one spot.
    - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
      Yes, wouldn't be the first time https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/georgian-woman-cuts-web-access https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/georgian-woman... (not a farmer but still)
      - maxerickson 2y ago
        That doesn't say that power is out, which is what is described up thread and what I meant by "total".
        ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003 No power, so no internet, cell service was overloaded and didn't work because of that, and well.. all that was was left was the radio.
BurningFrog 2y ago
The main argument for satellite radio is to have it out in the big receptionless areas expanses, so relying on cell signal defeats a major part of the purpose!
analog31 2y ago
My family's newest car came with Sirius radio and a free subscription that lasted a few months. We let it lapse. Chances are, the lack of market interest is what kills subscription radio. AM and FM are free.
- verdverm 2y ago
  Sirius wants $40/m for their space radio and most people have unlimited data plans without coverage gaps. I'd bite if it was around $5 per month. Alas, their lowest $10 plan is going to use my data plan on cell networks
- jlv2 2y ago
  I had a new car that also came with a Sirius radio and 3 months free. I tried it, but found it often dropped out while driving through forested roads in my area. That made it annoying to listen to. I stopped using it.
  - analog31 2y ago
    One thing I've found with the subscription services is that their "stations" are too homogeneous. I mean, I like jazz and classical, but I can't listen to just one style within those genres for hours -- especially while driving. And if you've got unlimited data, then there are free online "FM" stations, including NPR. WFMT out of Chicago rarely disappoints. And the threat of having to pay for it limited my interest in exploring it any further.
shiroiushi 2y ago
>Modern cars in the US... are not only dropping AM radio but also now SiriusXM satellite radio What's wrong with that? It's utter garbage. Only a fool would spend money on a subscription to it. You'd get better audio quality from a 1970s-vintage tape deck.
llm_trw 2y ago
>In an emergency, cellular will be the first to go. As will all bank transfers. I'm starting to sound like a crazy prepper for keeping enough cash and batteries to run my life for a week. It's like people assume that if the internet dies they will too so there's no point thinking about it. Makes me wonder if living in areas what have natural disasters which knock off power once every few years vs ones that don't makes people think differently about this.

jessriedel 2y ago

Yea, even if the major space powers Kesslerize all the satellites (like Starlink) in low-Earth orbit, the civilian geostationary sats like Sirius XM will likely be flying. (Geostationary sats can, I think, only be brought down individually with anti-satellite weapons, and that would presumably be prohibitively expensive for all of them.)

shiroiushi 2y ago
Sure, but who's going to pay for this? Satellites (especially geostationary ones) are expensive. And SiriusXM doesn't provide a worthwhile service that compels enough people to subscribe; it's a wonder it's still in business. The main function of a music subscription service is to listen to music, but have you ever listened to SiriusXM? The audio is so compressed that it sounds terrible.
- jessriedel 2y ago
  Yea I agree. AM seems like the most viable.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Exactly: AM doesn't require a network of satellites and terrestrial repeaters to be maintained just to provide some emergency public-service info with lousy audio quality. AM does this just fine, for very little cost on both sides (transmitter and receiver).
echoangle 2y ago
Not sure if anyone would ever consider doing this due to the collateral damage, but I think a retrograde GEO orbit would work fine for destroying a lot of GEO Sats. You would need to spread out your impactor by detonating it but the fragments would have 6 km/s relative to the GEO Sats.
- jessriedel 2y ago
  Hmm, thanks, that sounds plausible enough. Have you seen this possibility discussed anywhere?
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Not really, and I couldn’t find something like that from a quick googling. Maybe it wouldn’t work as good as I would think. I’m not sure if it’s really a realistic threat anyways, because polluting GEO is basically half way to a nuclear war. Kesslerizing LEO is probably bad but not forever and more easily avoided by picking another orbit. Making GEO impossible would really annoy every country out there.

gwbas1c 2y ago

I think it'd be fine if Sirius didn't require a subscription. The subscription nature turned it into a niche business. (And gosh Sirius's salesmen are annoying a-holes when they call you up to get you to subscribe. The last time I bought a car with a Sirius radio I had to insist that I wouldn't get any calls from Sirius to subscribe.)

maxerickson 2y ago

Is there a realistic scenario where cell phones are down and there is meaningful coordination being done over SiriusXM? I don't particularly expect that there would be any effort to lean on AM either.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
Maybe not meaningful coordination, but if the whole citys power shuts down, you'd still like some news about what happened, why is there no power, no internet, no nothing.... war? farmer plowing too deep? ddos attack on the infrastructure? In such cases, having long distance broadcasting service is great.
- ta1243 2y ago
  AM radio then. If you want internet, get a starlink.
- maxerickson 2y ago
  So a localized total outage? Weird that the farmer had no idea everything was in the one spot.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    Yes, wouldn't be the first time https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/georgian-woman-cuts-web-access https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/georgian-woman... (not a farmer but still)
    - maxerickson 2y ago
      That doesn't say that power is out, which is what is described up thread and what I meant by "total".
      - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003 No power, so no internet, cell service was overloaded and didn't work because of that, and well.. all that was was left was the radio.

BurningFrog 2y ago

The main argument for satellite radio is to have it out in the big receptionless areas expanses, so relying on cell signal defeats a major part of the purpose!

analog31 2y ago

My family's newest car came with Sirius radio and a free subscription that lasted a few months. We let it lapse. Chances are, the lack of market interest is what kills subscription radio. AM and FM are free.

verdverm 2y ago
Sirius wants $40/m for their space radio and most people have unlimited data plans without coverage gaps. I'd bite if it was around $5 per month. Alas, their lowest $10 plan is going to use my data plan on cell networks
jlv2 2y ago
I had a new car that also came with a Sirius radio and 3 months free. I tried it, but found it often dropped out while driving through forested roads in my area. That made it annoying to listen to. I stopped using it.
- analog31 2y ago
  One thing I've found with the subscription services is that their "stations" are too homogeneous. I mean, I like jazz and classical, but I can't listen to just one style within those genres for hours -- especially while driving. And if you've got unlimited data, then there are free online "FM" stations, including NPR. WFMT out of Chicago rarely disappoints. And the threat of having to pay for it limited my interest in exploring it any further.

shiroiushi 2y ago

>Modern cars in the US... are not only dropping AM radio but also now SiriusXM satellite radio What's wrong with that? It's utter garbage. Only a fool would spend money on a subscription to it. You'd get better audio quality from a 1970s-vintage tape deck.

llm_trw 2y ago

>In an emergency, cellular will be the first to go. As will all bank transfers. I'm starting to sound like a crazy prepper for keeping enough cash and batteries to run my life for a week. It's like people assume that if the internet dies they will too so there's no point thinking about it. Makes me wonder if living in areas what have natural disasters which knock off power once every few years vs ones that don't makes people think differently about this.