5 ms·

The book of Kells is gorgeous and well worth a visit. If you are in Dublin and enjoy this sort of thing, _please_ also take the very short walk over to the Che

The book of Kells is gorgeous and well worth a visit. If you are in Dublin and enjoy this sort of thing, _please_ also take the very short walk over to the Chester Beatty Library (https://chesterbeatty.ie/ https://chesterbeatty.ie/) as well. It's free and has an absolutely fantastic collection of ancient and sacred manuscripts. I was lucky enough to live across the street from it for several years and it remains one of my favourite museums in the world.

grujicd 2y ago
Chester Beatty is a gem. I went into it not expecting much from "museum of books". But it's also in a way a museum of world's religions, which are tightly connected to writing and books. As an atheist who has low opinion on value of religion because of all the deaths they were and still are responsible for, it reminded me of their positive role in history. When you see all those ancient religious books you begin to question whether we would have writing at all without them? Who would go through a painstaking process of duplicating books before Gutenberg if not men devoting their lives to God? Thus carrying light of civilization and creating basis and tools for science to progress later. I know this is not some great revelation, but I felt enlightened a bit after leaving Chester Beatty.
- noufalibrahim 2y ago
  Your post reminded me of the story "A canticle for leibowitz". It explores many of the ideas you've mentioned. I recommend reading it if you haven't already. I think you'd enjoy it.
  - grujicd 2y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation, looks like the kind of book I'd enjoy.
- stogot 2y ago
  The idea that religion causes more deaths than non-religion is absurd in the 21st history (hitler, Stalin, mao) and is a myth when you take in full world history. An index of all known wars in history indicated 93% of wars were not religious. https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/ https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-ca...
  - grujicd 2y ago
    Never said that religion was responsible for all or even most wars. But you can't deny it plays negative role in many wars. It wouldn't have to be for theological reasons, since it seems the article would only count these cases as religious wars. Religion is often used to segregate humans into opposing tribes, where without religion they could be a single nation, or even same ethnicity.
    - Keyframe 2y ago
      What kind of logic is that? Exactly the opposite could be said as well and still hold true.
      - chvrchbvrner 2y ago
        If you mean by "the opposite" that everybody believes the same thing, then theoretically yes. However, that is very unlikely and I assume there will always be people with different views/opinions. The more you put people into "separate boxes", the more you segregate them. And I agree with the previous reply that religion is one of those things that puts you in a specific box.
        lazyasciiart 2y ago
        I think they mean that people in large groups segregate themselves into smaller ones, by whatever characteristics available. If they had the same religion they’d be separated into orthodox and progressive versions of it, or people who had come off well out of the last great flood vs people who got screwed by it. And then they’d create a religion as explanation for the flood and why it was from god/the devil.
        verisimi 2y ago
        > And then they’d create a religion as explanation for the flood and why it was from god/the devil. .. as opposed to climate change which is self-evident.
- Intermernet 2y ago
  If you like libraries like this, and you're ever in the area, I can highly recommend the Herzog August Bibliothek in Wolfenbüttel, Germany. Crazy amount of incredibly rare books and manuscripts that you can actually look at. For many you will need to wear gloves and may have someone hovering over you, but it's worth it. Some absolutely mind blowing material in that library!
brendoelfrendo 2y ago
Agreed! We went last year and thoroughly enjoyed it. I understand that the Long Room in the Old Library is mostly empty for renovations, but the Book has been moved to a dedicated building during this time. Pro-tip to any potential visitors: they turn the pages every so often, and I have heard some travel bloggers complain that the pages on display when they went weren't very interesting, but the university will show you what pages of the book of Kells are currently on display: https://www.visittrinity.ie/book-of-kells-pages-on-display/ https://www.visittrinity.ie/book-of-kells-pages-on-display/ At the moment, it appears that they have it open to a pair of canon tables which have some really lovely illuminations.
VagabundoP 2y ago
They have some gorgeous Asian exhibits as well from what I remember.
TRiG_Ireland 2y ago
The Chester Beatty Library has a much larger collection than is shown at any one time. Many sacred texts, but also much else, including some printed news-sheets from the French Revolution. And a lot of Chinese and Japanese stuff, including some gorgeous jade snuffboxes.
raffraffraff 2y ago
There's also a pretty decent eatery! Another amazing library, though one that you can't really access, is the Edward Worth library at Dr Steevens’ Hospital, beside Heuston train station. https://edwardworthlibrary.ie/ https://edwardworthlibrary.ie/ He had collected the books over his lifetime and bequeathed the collection to the hospital, under conditions that were to result in the absolute protection of the books. The story of the collection's history is itself worth the visit, and the current librarians are always welcoming if you call in advance. I was at a lecture there last week, and they took great pains to tell everybody to come back.
gambiting 2y ago
I saw it in person few months ago, and well......it's weird. The quality of the caligraphy and drawings is such that when you see it in person...it's completely underwhelming. It just looks like a very high quality print - which obviously speaks volumes about the quality of penmanship of something that is so crazy old. But the presentation room where the pages were shown magnified and the library afterwards were(to me) 100x more interesting than the "main event". I just saw it, went "huh" and that was about it. I guess seeing Mona Lisa in person must be similar - hundreds of people trying to take a peek, and it's far away from you behind glass so you can't really appreciate the details.
- Isamu 2y ago
  Opposite reaction from me. Every print seemed lackluster when I finally saw the original. Which is surprisingly smaller than expected. And the intricacies are incredibly tiny. Something about the work is more vibrant in person. I found the same to be true about Da Vinci. In particular his silverpoint drawings can’t be reproduced well.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  It’s a bit like looking at the sky with your own telescope after seeing the Hubble images. You need superhuman senses - such as the magnified images and the extensive explanations in the museum - to really appreciate some things. The library is iconic. Too bad we can’t borrow the books it has without at least a tenure and a few PhDs in history and literature.
- lazyasciiart 2y ago
  I did have pretty much exactly that reaction to the Mona Lisa, yes.
_yb2s 2y ago
I stayed at a dorm on campus for a week at Trinity, but the book was so popular I couldn’t bring myself to wait in the long line to see it… but wish I had.
leoc 2y ago
Strongly agreed. This is likely more obvious, but I think it's worth saying: the "Treasury" in the Kildare Street building of the National Museum of Ireland should also be at the top of any visitor's list. The Ardagh Chalice and friends are more or less the equal and equivalent of the Book of Kells in metalwork. https://www.museum.ie/en-ie/collections-research/collection/the-treasury https://www.museum.ie/en-ie/collections-research/collection/... .
- rbanffy 2y ago
  The archeology museum in the same block is also a must-see
rbanffy 2y ago
I live in Dublin and never heard of this. Must do it ASAP. Now, how many HN’ers are here in Dublin? We might want to start a group on Meetup.com.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  I was there for ten years but moved to the Netherlands. You might like the Irish tech community slack, though they’re not fans of this site.
arethuza 2y ago
Speaking of things that are gorgeous and well worth a visit I can also strongly recommend Iona - one of the places where the Book of Kells may have been produced. A bit out of the way and the weather isn't always perfect but on a nice day I think Iona is one of the most beautiful places in the world - and that's before considering it's remarkable history and religious significance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona
- throw4847285 2y ago
  I went to Iona a couple of months ago and had a spectacular time. Though the impression I got from the Abbey Museum was that the Book of Kells was definitely written solely on Iona. I suspected this might be slightly skewed, but that's OK. I understand having pride in a place like Iona.
onel 2y ago
+1 for Chester Beatty. It is such a gem of a museum

grujicd 2y ago

Chester Beatty is a gem. I went into it not expecting much from "museum of books". But it's also in a way a museum of world's religions, which are tightly connected to writing and books. As an atheist who has low opinion on value of religion because of all the deaths they were and still are responsible for, it reminded me of their positive role in history. When you see all those ancient religious books you begin to question whether we would have writing at all without them? Who would go through a painstaking process of duplicating books before Gutenberg if not men devoting their lives to God? Thus carrying light of civilization and creating basis and tools for science to progress later. I know this is not some great revelation, but I felt enlightened a bit after leaving Chester Beatty.

noufalibrahim 2y ago
Your post reminded me of the story "A canticle for leibowitz". It explores many of the ideas you've mentioned. I recommend reading it if you haven't already. I think you'd enjoy it.
- grujicd 2y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation, looks like the kind of book I'd enjoy.
stogot 2y ago
The idea that religion causes more deaths than non-religion is absurd in the 21st history (hitler, Stalin, mao) and is a myth when you take in full world history. An index of all known wars in history indicated 93% of wars were not religious. https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/ https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-ca...
- grujicd 2y ago
  Never said that religion was responsible for all or even most wars. But you can't deny it plays negative role in many wars. It wouldn't have to be for theological reasons, since it seems the article would only count these cases as religious wars. Religion is often used to segregate humans into opposing tribes, where without religion they could be a single nation, or even same ethnicity.
  - Keyframe 2y ago
    What kind of logic is that? Exactly the opposite could be said as well and still hold true.
    - chvrchbvrner 2y ago
      If you mean by "the opposite" that everybody believes the same thing, then theoretically yes. However, that is very unlikely and I assume there will always be people with different views/opinions. The more you put people into "separate boxes", the more you segregate them. And I agree with the previous reply that religion is one of those things that puts you in a specific box.
      - lazyasciiart 2y ago
        I think they mean that people in large groups segregate themselves into smaller ones, by whatever characteristics available. If they had the same religion they’d be separated into orthodox and progressive versions of it, or people who had come off well out of the last great flood vs people who got screwed by it. And then they’d create a religion as explanation for the flood and why it was from god/the devil.
        verisimi 2y ago
        > And then they’d create a religion as explanation for the flood and why it was from god/the devil. .. as opposed to climate change which is self-evident.
Intermernet 2y ago
If you like libraries like this, and you're ever in the area, I can highly recommend the Herzog August Bibliothek in Wolfenbüttel, Germany. Crazy amount of incredibly rare books and manuscripts that you can actually look at. For many you will need to wear gloves and may have someone hovering over you, but it's worth it. Some absolutely mind blowing material in that library!

brendoelfrendo 2y ago

Agreed! We went last year and thoroughly enjoyed it. I understand that the Long Room in the Old Library is mostly empty for renovations, but the Book has been moved to a dedicated building during this time. Pro-tip to any potential visitors: they turn the pages every so often, and I have heard some travel bloggers complain that the pages on display when they went weren't very interesting, but the university will show you what pages of the book of Kells are currently on display: https://www.visittrinity.ie/book-of-kells-pages-on-display/ https://www.visittrinity.ie/book-of-kells-pages-on-display/ At the moment, it appears that they have it open to a pair of canon tables which have some really lovely illuminations.

VagabundoP 2y ago

They have some gorgeous Asian exhibits as well from what I remember.

TRiG_Ireland 2y ago

The Chester Beatty Library has a much larger collection than is shown at any one time. Many sacred texts, but also much else, including some printed news-sheets from the French Revolution. And a lot of Chinese and Japanese stuff, including some gorgeous jade snuffboxes.

raffraffraff 2y ago

There's also a pretty decent eatery! Another amazing library, though one that you can't really access, is the Edward Worth library at Dr Steevens’ Hospital, beside Heuston train station. https://edwardworthlibrary.ie/ https://edwardworthlibrary.ie/ He had collected the books over his lifetime and bequeathed the collection to the hospital, under conditions that were to result in the absolute protection of the books. The story of the collection's history is itself worth the visit, and the current librarians are always welcoming if you call in advance. I was at a lecture there last week, and they took great pains to tell everybody to come back.

gambiting 2y ago

I saw it in person few months ago, and well......it's weird. The quality of the caligraphy and drawings is such that when you see it in person...it's completely underwhelming. It just looks like a very high quality print - which obviously speaks volumes about the quality of penmanship of something that is so crazy old. But the presentation room where the pages were shown magnified and the library afterwards were(to me) 100x more interesting than the "main event". I just saw it, went "huh" and that was about it. I guess seeing Mona Lisa in person must be similar - hundreds of people trying to take a peek, and it's far away from you behind glass so you can't really appreciate the details.

Isamu 2y ago
Opposite reaction from me. Every print seemed lackluster when I finally saw the original. Which is surprisingly smaller than expected. And the intricacies are incredibly tiny. Something about the work is more vibrant in person. I found the same to be true about Da Vinci. In particular his silverpoint drawings can’t be reproduced well.
rbanffy 2y ago
It’s a bit like looking at the sky with your own telescope after seeing the Hubble images. You need superhuman senses - such as the magnified images and the extensive explanations in the museum - to really appreciate some things. The library is iconic. Too bad we can’t borrow the books it has without at least a tenure and a few PhDs in history and literature.
lazyasciiart 2y ago
I did have pretty much exactly that reaction to the Mona Lisa, yes.

_yb2s 2y ago

I stayed at a dorm on campus for a week at Trinity, but the book was so popular I couldn’t bring myself to wait in the long line to see it… but wish I had.

leoc 2y ago

Strongly agreed. This is likely more obvious, but I think it's worth saying: the "Treasury" in the Kildare Street building of the National Museum of Ireland should also be at the top of any visitor's list. The Ardagh Chalice and friends are more or less the equal and equivalent of the Book of Kells in metalwork. https://www.museum.ie/en-ie/collections-research/collection/the-treasury https://www.museum.ie/en-ie/collections-research/collection/... .

rbanffy 2y ago
The archeology museum in the same block is also a must-see

rbanffy 2y ago

I live in Dublin and never heard of this. Must do it ASAP. Now, how many HN’ers are here in Dublin? We might want to start a group on Meetup.com.

CalRobert 2y ago
I was there for ten years but moved to the Netherlands. You might like the Irish tech community slack, though they’re not fans of this site.

arethuza 2y ago

Speaking of things that are gorgeous and well worth a visit I can also strongly recommend Iona - one of the places where the Book of Kells may have been produced. A bit out of the way and the weather isn't always perfect but on a nice day I think Iona is one of the most beautiful places in the world - and that's before considering it's remarkable history and religious significance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona

throw4847285 2y ago
I went to Iona a couple of months ago and had a spectacular time. Though the impression I got from the Abbey Museum was that the Book of Kells was definitely written solely on Iona. I suspected this might be slightly skewed, but that's OK. I understand having pride in a place like Iona.

onel 2y ago

+1 for Chester Beatty. It is such a gem of a museum