5 ms·

It's quite surprising to me how the US still has the penny. Like its value is less than the cost of carrying it around.

by im3w1l 2y ago

zahlman 2y ago
Canada gave up on it over a decade ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(Canadian_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(Canadian_coin)).
- cduzz 2y ago
  I've said before, I'll say again: We should have the $0.1 and $0.5 coins and everything should be rounded to that. There's no reason to have $0.01 or even $0.05 precision. The value of the dollar, these days, has inflated to the point where there's simply no practical difference between $0.01 and $0.03 or $0.08 in everyday life, when dealing with cash transactions. You could certainly track $0.01 in digital account tracking, but the coin is silly. And -- with payment processing fees, places dealing with cash or card processing would still see less cost in "rounding down" than paying for card processing.
  - chgs 2y ago
    Prices in America are wired. Bought a beer yesterday waiting for the train. Claimed it was $7, actual price $7.62 (which Amex coincidently converted to exactly £6.00) If I’d paid in cash I’d have to pay with at least a 2 cent coin (and likely need a 1 or 3 in change), despite the nice round number Until America changes to advertise things at the actual price rather than a partial price, I don’t see how getting rid of 1 cent coins works.
    - cduzz 2y ago
      It'd cost $7.6 if you pay in cash and $7.62173451123 if you pay via a card? (and, if I were to pass the "small change" bill, I'd, by fiat, make it so that it'd still be "$7.6" even if it was $7.68 -- and the vendors would still come out ahead because the $0.08 lost from rounding down is much less than the $0.23 in card processing fees that comes with a 3% surcharge from your payment processors.)
    - zahlman 2y ago
      Does the UK include VAT in all listed prices? I don't recall it working that way in continental Europe, and it certainly doesn't work that way in Canada with our equivalent (nor in the US, as you discovered). That said, advertised prices are commonly not "round" in the first place. In Canada, we simply round the figure on the bill when paying cash.
      - abanana 2y ago
        Yes, prices advertised to consumers must include VAT. UK advertising laws mandate that the price must include all non-optional taxes, fees, etc. Prices advertised exclusively to businesses can exclude VAT.
      - Symbiote 2y ago
        UK and EU law requires advertised prices to include all taxes. The most common exception is things aimed at business buyers, who won't pay tax -- so the Dell consumer website shows laptops prices including tax, and the business site shows them without, but labelled as such. It means if I buy for business from a consumer site, and I'm logged in with my business account, I see 'ugly' prices like 5119.20, as the marketing-friendly number of 6,399.00 is chosen including tax.
analog31 2y ago
People are superstitious about math, and fearful that rounding to the nearest nickel, or dime, will result in them getting ripped off. Also, it's an admission that the government has given up on inflation. This is the country that gave up on the metric system because it involved too much math.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  I'd suspect they rejected the metric system because it would have cost money to change everything over. The argument would presumably have gone something like "we can't have the federal government imposing a cost on the citizens / corporations".
  - crazygringo 2y ago
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with "too much math" -- I think everyone appreciates metric uses less math, and we all learn it in school anyways for science classes. It's the cost of change. Replacing every speed limit sign, spending decades where half the cookbooks you own use oven temperatures in °F and half use °C. Years of confusion where someone says they were going 60 and you have to ask if they mean mph or kph. Not to mention changing the size of every milk container, and so forth...
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      I'm not sure I buy that excuse. For packaged goods and so on, you don't have to change any sizes of things. Just pick a date and change to a different package design. So nothing in your factory that produces 1 gallon milk jugs has to change except the graphic design needs to start saying 3.8L Milk instead of 1gal Milk. At that point, you can transition to change the physical size of things whenever it is convenient. For cars, most of them in the US already show mph and kph, so the switch should be easy. Leave old signs alone, but whenever new signs get built, build them in both units for a few years (65mph / 105kph) allowing you to gradually transition to metric. Repeat for everything else. You can gradually make the switch. Heck, some products (like soda and bullets) are already in liters and millimeters. I agree with the OOP. We refuse to even take the first steps to switch because of good ol stereotypical American paranoia: "If we switch to metric, all the companies will use it to make everything smaller and rip us off!" as if shrinkflation wasn't already a thing.

It's quite surprising to me how the US still has the penny. Like its value is less than the cost of carrying it around.

by im3w1l 2y ago

It's quite surprising to me how the US still has the penny. Like its value is less than the cost of carrying it around.

Canada gave up on it over a decade ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(Canadian_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(Canadian_coin)).

cduzz 2y ago
I've said before, I'll say again: We should have the $0.1 and $0.5 coins and everything should be rounded to that. There's no reason to have $0.01 or even $0.05 precision. The value of the dollar, these days, has inflated to the point where there's simply no practical difference between $0.01 and $0.03 or $0.08 in everyday life, when dealing with cash transactions. You could certainly track $0.01 in digital account tracking, but the coin is silly. And -- with payment processing fees, places dealing with cash or card processing would still see less cost in "rounding down" than paying for card processing.
- chgs 2y ago
  Prices in America are wired. Bought a beer yesterday waiting for the train. Claimed it was $7, actual price $7.62 (which Amex coincidently converted to exactly £6.00) If I’d paid in cash I’d have to pay with at least a 2 cent coin (and likely need a 1 or 3 in change), despite the nice round number Until America changes to advertise things at the actual price rather than a partial price, I don’t see how getting rid of 1 cent coins works.
  - cduzz 2y ago
    It'd cost $7.6 if you pay in cash and $7.62173451123 if you pay via a card? (and, if I were to pass the "small change" bill, I'd, by fiat, make it so that it'd still be "$7.6" even if it was $7.68 -- and the vendors would still come out ahead because the $0.08 lost from rounding down is much less than the $0.23 in card processing fees that comes with a 3% surcharge from your payment processors.)
  - zahlman 2y ago
    Does the UK include VAT in all listed prices? I don't recall it working that way in continental Europe, and it certainly doesn't work that way in Canada with our equivalent (nor in the US, as you discovered). That said, advertised prices are commonly not "round" in the first place. In Canada, we simply round the figure on the bill when paying cash.
    - abanana 2y ago
      Yes, prices advertised to consumers must include VAT. UK advertising laws mandate that the price must include all non-optional taxes, fees, etc. Prices advertised exclusively to businesses can exclude VAT.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      UK and EU law requires advertised prices to include all taxes. The most common exception is things aimed at business buyers, who won't pay tax -- so the Dell consumer website shows laptops prices including tax, and the business site shows them without, but labelled as such. It means if I buy for business from a consumer site, and I'm logged in with my business account, I see 'ugly' prices like 5119.20, as the marketing-friendly number of 6,399.00 is chosen including tax.

analog31 2y ago

People are superstitious about math, and fearful that rounding to the nearest nickel, or dime, will result in them getting ripped off. Also, it's an admission that the government has given up on inflation. This is the country that gave up on the metric system because it involved too much math.

HPsquared 2y ago
I'd suspect they rejected the metric system because it would have cost money to change everything over. The argument would presumably have gone something like "we can't have the federal government imposing a cost on the citizens / corporations".
- crazygringo 2y ago
  Exactly. It had nothing to do with "too much math" -- I think everyone appreciates metric uses less math, and we all learn it in school anyways for science classes. It's the cost of change. Replacing every speed limit sign, spending decades where half the cookbooks you own use oven temperatures in °F and half use °C. Years of confusion where someone says they were going 60 and you have to ask if they mean mph or kph. Not to mention changing the size of every milk container, and so forth...
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I'm not sure I buy that excuse. For packaged goods and so on, you don't have to change any sizes of things. Just pick a date and change to a different package design. So nothing in your factory that produces 1 gallon milk jugs has to change except the graphic design needs to start saying 3.8L Milk instead of 1gal Milk. At that point, you can transition to change the physical size of things whenever it is convenient. For cars, most of them in the US already show mph and kph, so the switch should be easy. Leave old signs alone, but whenever new signs get built, build them in both units for a few years (65mph / 105kph) allowing you to gradually transition to metric. Repeat for everything else. You can gradually make the switch. Heck, some products (like soda and bullets) are already in liters and millimeters. I agree with the OOP. We refuse to even take the first steps to switch because of good ol stereotypical American paranoia: "If we switch to metric, all the companies will use it to make everything smaller and rip us off!" as if shrinkflation wasn't already a thing.