4 ms·

I think there is a fundamental difference between MMOGs and TikTok-style social media. I suspect the human brain has a relatively healthy reaction to creatively

I think there is a fundamental difference between MMOGs and TikTok-style social media. I suspect the human brain has a relatively healthy reaction to creatively connecting with other humans via virtual worlds but a comparatively poor reaction to algorithmic feeds.

spencerchubb 2y ago
I don't even consider tiktok as social media. It's more for entertainment like netflix. There is not much socializing that happens on tiktok
- evanmoran 2y ago
  Netflix is curated and not user created, so I’d say TikTok is more like YouTube. Then of course everyone copied the format including YouTube, IG, X, and even LinkedIn (saw this one just today). But even with that slight naming difference, I couldn’t agree more with you that MMOs are rich cultural hubs compared to endless short videos. It’s a low bar :)
  - jumping_frog 2y ago
    Even Spotify. Just saw their short audio clips feed of interesting sections of songs, tracks.
- whyenot 2y ago
  The fact that you may not have experienced it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist :) There is actually a lot of socializing on TikTok, for example in the "BookTok" community. The format is a little different than on a message board, or IG, but it is there.
  - bloqs 2y ago
    Perhaps at risk of reading too far into it, but it seems the implication is that while Tiktok is called "social media", it seems to be the exception that socialising occurs. World of Warcraft, and many similar games of that era would often be canned as anti-social, but fundamentally facilitated the pursuit of common goals and deep bonds for those otherwise isolated or barred from such engagement in other avenues.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Yep. WoW was problematic because the mainstream had already decided that the participants were problematic, not because of any careful analysis of the game's merits. TikTok is okay because the mainstream participates, not because of a careful analysis of the platform's merits.
    - Lammy 2y ago
      MMOs are people being together, alone Social media is people being alone, together
      - fragmede 2y ago
        Either way, you're doing socializing wrong. the only acceptable way of socializing is how our parents did it. In person, with lots of alcohol, and the only qualifier was physical proximity.
        em-bee 2y ago
        i was meeting with my MUD playing friends almost weekly for dinner and drinks, and the wizards met to plan work on the game. every holiday weekend we travelled to other cities to meet player friends there. i didn't drink any alcohol though. i fondly remember when a guy fell asleep during such a meeting someone attached a note to his back saying "idle", like inactive players were marked in the game.
- wwilim 2y ago
  It's parasocial media if anything
Maken 2y ago
People were active participants in MMORPGs. You get the dopamine from achieving goals inside the game, and make connections with other people as you collaborate to reach these goals. Your relationship with other players is that of coworkers (or cohabitants). On social media, most people are just spectators, getting entertained by a small group of creators whose relation with the rest of the community is that of salesmen. Both systems are not designed in the same way.
- lovethevoid 2y ago
  Not everyone who plays MMOs are active participants. Majority of people in a guild are not active participants. A lot of them won't even get on a shared voice call anymore to listen to instructions during large group events. A lot of MMOs also make active collaboration a complete pain, whether it's introducing a messed up matchmaking system, not dealing with bots, or adding new content that rewards you for going at it alone. A lot of content now is quite literally zero communication, not even a message in chat, just queue for group, do content and leave. And people will spend 5+ hours a day doing that. Farming mindlessly as if it's a second job.
  - Aerroon 2y ago
    MMOs have always been like that though. The forced group content is a later addition that not every game follows (eg OSRS). But that doesn't really mean anything. You're still sharing a virtual world. You see people pass you by, meet random people etc. They are still active participants, they just don't have to wait around for other people constantly (because that's what forced group content always turns into).
  - brailsafe 2y ago
    All of those have always been the case though, it only wasn't if it wasn't. It's not like nearly everyone was inclined to jump on Vent and raid, that's always been relatively few. Only more recently have there been some systems that make lower tier content less requiring of vocal comms, but for anything demanding it's still pretty typical.
bitexploder 2y ago
I play WoW still. It is very much a fun social group and hobby as much as it is gaming. We nerd out over the lore and shared experience in the game. It can be a very humanistic experience if that is what you want. I have played this game for 15 years now. Been with the same guild for 6 now.
corimaith 2y ago
Tik-Tok (and Social Media) exists around content. It's fundamentally social but has no inherent "meat" which is why it go bad so easily, just like high school gossip and cliques. It's hollow by itself, focused on reaction and judgment. MMOs are that "meat". It's someplace you go for it's own sake, and (hopefully) you meet people around that shared space as a consequence rather than an intention. There will be debates, trolls and conflicts of course, but I feel that the focus on content is a shared axis that can keep things healthier on the long term. Well MMOs are dying, and a growing number of zoomers would rather passively watch than actively play games, so I guess gamers aren't immune to social media either, but I think in the future we will return to this for answers that our present can't answer.
- Aerroon 2y ago
  I think MMOs are dying because the casual players play mobile games instead, so MMOs end up catering more and more to the hardcore crowd. This further turns casual players away.
- Scaevolus 2y ago
  Even if MMOs are dying, fun collaborative gaming experiences with friends (Minecraft, Roblox, Fortnite, ...) continue to be very popular. It's often done with an external voice chat program (Discord), meaning groups of friends can wander from game to game having many different experiences than MMO grinding.
tenzing 2y ago
I still remember playing Anarchy Online in the mid 2000s and teaming up for a few hours with a guy who'd broken his back a month or so prior. He talked about how he got so much happiness from the social interaction and a sense of helping people (he was much higher level than me) within the game when he was otherwise bedridden.

spencerchubb 2y ago

I don't even consider tiktok as social media. It's more for entertainment like netflix. There is not much socializing that happens on tiktok

evanmoran 2y ago
Netflix is curated and not user created, so I’d say TikTok is more like YouTube. Then of course everyone copied the format including YouTube, IG, X, and even LinkedIn (saw this one just today). But even with that slight naming difference, I couldn’t agree more with you that MMOs are rich cultural hubs compared to endless short videos. It’s a low bar :)
- jumping_frog 2y ago
  Even Spotify. Just saw their short audio clips feed of interesting sections of songs, tracks.
whyenot 2y ago
The fact that you may not have experienced it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist :) There is actually a lot of socializing on TikTok, for example in the "BookTok" community. The format is a little different than on a message board, or IG, but it is there.
- bloqs 2y ago
  Perhaps at risk of reading too far into it, but it seems the implication is that while Tiktok is called "social media", it seems to be the exception that socialising occurs. World of Warcraft, and many similar games of that era would often be canned as anti-social, but fundamentally facilitated the pursuit of common goals and deep bonds for those otherwise isolated or barred from such engagement in other avenues.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Yep. WoW was problematic because the mainstream had already decided that the participants were problematic, not because of any careful analysis of the game's merits. TikTok is okay because the mainstream participates, not because of a careful analysis of the platform's merits.
  - Lammy 2y ago
    MMOs are people being together, alone Social media is people being alone, together
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Either way, you're doing socializing wrong. the only acceptable way of socializing is how our parents did it. In person, with lots of alcohol, and the only qualifier was physical proximity.
      - em-bee 2y ago
        i was meeting with my MUD playing friends almost weekly for dinner and drinks, and the wizards met to plan work on the game. every holiday weekend we travelled to other cities to meet player friends there. i didn't drink any alcohol though. i fondly remember when a guy fell asleep during such a meeting someone attached a note to his back saying "idle", like inactive players were marked in the game.
wwilim 2y ago
It's parasocial media if anything

Maken 2y ago

People were active participants in MMORPGs. You get the dopamine from achieving goals inside the game, and make connections with other people as you collaborate to reach these goals. Your relationship with other players is that of coworkers (or cohabitants). On social media, most people are just spectators, getting entertained by a small group of creators whose relation with the rest of the community is that of salesmen. Both systems are not designed in the same way.

lovethevoid 2y ago
Not everyone who plays MMOs are active participants. Majority of people in a guild are not active participants. A lot of them won't even get on a shared voice call anymore to listen to instructions during large group events. A lot of MMOs also make active collaboration a complete pain, whether it's introducing a messed up matchmaking system, not dealing with bots, or adding new content that rewards you for going at it alone. A lot of content now is quite literally zero communication, not even a message in chat, just queue for group, do content and leave. And people will spend 5+ hours a day doing that. Farming mindlessly as if it's a second job.
- Aerroon 2y ago
  MMOs have always been like that though. The forced group content is a later addition that not every game follows (eg OSRS). But that doesn't really mean anything. You're still sharing a virtual world. You see people pass you by, meet random people etc. They are still active participants, they just don't have to wait around for other people constantly (because that's what forced group content always turns into).
- brailsafe 2y ago
  All of those have always been the case though, it only wasn't if it wasn't. It's not like nearly everyone was inclined to jump on Vent and raid, that's always been relatively few. Only more recently have there been some systems that make lower tier content less requiring of vocal comms, but for anything demanding it's still pretty typical.

bitexploder 2y ago

I play WoW still. It is very much a fun social group and hobby as much as it is gaming. We nerd out over the lore and shared experience in the game. It can be a very humanistic experience if that is what you want. I have played this game for 15 years now. Been with the same guild for 6 now.

corimaith 2y ago

Tik-Tok (and Social Media) exists around content. It's fundamentally social but has no inherent "meat" which is why it go bad so easily, just like high school gossip and cliques. It's hollow by itself, focused on reaction and judgment. MMOs are that "meat". It's someplace you go for it's own sake, and (hopefully) you meet people around that shared space as a consequence rather than an intention. There will be debates, trolls and conflicts of course, but I feel that the focus on content is a shared axis that can keep things healthier on the long term. Well MMOs are dying, and a growing number of zoomers would rather passively watch than actively play games, so I guess gamers aren't immune to social media either, but I think in the future we will return to this for answers that our present can't answer.

Aerroon 2y ago
I think MMOs are dying because the casual players play mobile games instead, so MMOs end up catering more and more to the hardcore crowd. This further turns casual players away.
Scaevolus 2y ago
Even if MMOs are dying, fun collaborative gaming experiences with friends (Minecraft, Roblox, Fortnite, ...) continue to be very popular. It's often done with an external voice chat program (Discord), meaning groups of friends can wander from game to game having many different experiences than MMO grinding.

tenzing 2y ago

I still remember playing Anarchy Online in the mid 2000s and teaming up for a few hours with a guy who'd broken his back a month or so prior. He talked about how he got so much happiness from the social interaction and a sense of helping people (he was much higher level than me) within the game when he was otherwise bedridden.