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Exactly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol In this example, one among countless others, russia k

• protomolecule 2y ago
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  • aguaviva 2y ago
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• aguaviva 2y ago
  Russia caused more suffering in a few months of war than the USA in a decade in Vietnam. Absolutely and obviously false, as you will quickly reveal to yourself by spending a few seconds looking up the toll of civilian deaths and maimings during the US-driven conflict in Vietnam. Comparing the two is utterly dishonest. The comparison is in any case completely vacuous. There's no indication that you're being dishonest here, however. Most likely it's a case of simple willful ignorance. In this example, one among countless others, There are exactly 3 others since WW2: Chechnya, Syria, Afghanistan. Their number is not, by any stretch, "countless".
  • af78 2y ago
    By 'countless', I was referring to events in this war other than Mariupol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_inva... Of course russia committed many more in the wars you cited. And we could add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_January https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_January https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
    • aguaviva 2y ago
      Except these other interventions / invasions didn't cause "tens of thousands" of civilian deaths, and certainly not within "a couple of months". Most saw far fewer deaths, by an order of magnitude. Only one comes close: the multi-decade conflict in Abkhazia. But that one saw atrocities committed by both sides, and the civilian death toll was probably significantly under 10k (including the phase of overt ethnic cleansing). Even in Mariupol it seems the figure is closer to 8k-10k per [0]. Unfortunately the Ukrainian government sometimes provides unsubstantiated figures, and then these get misquoted and copy-pasted (for example neglecting to mention the distinction between military and civilian deaths). In the current war there've been no other massacres to compare with the scale of what happened in Mariupol (horrible as these events were, the numbers just weren't that big). Pushing grossly inflated figures (or implications of such numbers) serves no purpose, and only serves to give the apologists for the regime that is responsible (such as we have in ample supply on in this venue) ammunition with which to nitpick and distract. "Western propaganda, russophobia" they will say. [0] - https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/08/ukraine-new-findings-russias-devastation-mariupol https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/08/ukraine-new-findings-rus...
      • af78 2y ago
        After a second look I realize I got carried away and my earlier claim about the Ukraine war being harder on civilians in one year than the Vietnam war in a decade was not fair to the Vietnamese. My point about the other conflict is just that russia fought them after WW2. Sorry if this was unclear.
        • aguaviva 2y ago
          No worries. Your intent was obviously good, and you didn't start these conflicts anyway.