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I never said human intelligence is impossible. All I am saying is that Sam Altman's promises (remember the original topic) hinge on breaking thermodynamics. H

I never said human intelligence is impossible. All I am saying is that Sam Altman's promises (remember the original topic) hinge on breaking thermodynamics. Humans evolved on a planet that was just so. The elements on Earth that make life possible couldn't have been created in a younger universe. So it take the full history of the universe to produce human intelligence. It also doesn't exist in a vacuum. Current human civilization is not a collection of 8 billion 20 watt boxes. > As for human intelligence on a chip? Well, (1) it's been quite a long time since humans were capable of designing the circuits manually, given the feature size is now at the level where quantum mechanics must be accounted for or you get surprise tunnelling between gates; and (2) one of the things being automated is feature segmentation and labelling of neural micrographs, i.e. literally brain scanning: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32619485/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32619485/ I don't understand any of this so I won't comment.

ben_w 2y ago
> All I am saying is that Sam Altman's promises (remember the original topic) hinge on breaking thermodynamics If it hinged on that, then you would actually be saying it's impossible. > The elements on Earth that make life possible couldn't have been created in a younger universe Those statements also apply to the silicon and doping agents used in chip manufacture. They tell you nothing of relevance, we're not doing Carl Sagan's Apple Pie from scratch with AI, we're trying to get a thing like us.
- swiftcoder 2y ago
  > If it hinged on that, then you would actually be saying it's impossible "impossible with the approach OpenAI is using" != "impossible"
  - namaria 2y ago
    Look, any sufficiently complex autonomous system necessitates a bigger, more complex one to maintain it's functionality. The more complex, the harder it is to deal with the entropy that this system is removing form it's target action area. Eventually you need a whole universe capable of sustaining self reproducing intelligent systems. The way to get intelligent autonomous and sufficiently complex systems to do anything non trivial is life. Anyone trying to sell you a box they say is capable of non trivial, adaptive, complex behavior autonomously is selling you a perpetual motion machine: a pretense that thermodynamics can be suspended at will.
- namaria 2y ago
  Yes, I am saying that AGI is impossible. AGI is either human intelligence behind the curtains or a pie in the sky.

ben_w 2y ago

> All I am saying is that Sam Altman's promises (remember the original topic) hinge on breaking thermodynamics If it hinged on that, then you would actually be saying it's impossible. > The elements on Earth that make life possible couldn't have been created in a younger universe Those statements also apply to the silicon and doping agents used in chip manufacture. They tell you nothing of relevance, we're not doing Carl Sagan's Apple Pie from scratch with AI, we're trying to get a thing like us.

swiftcoder 2y ago
> If it hinged on that, then you would actually be saying it's impossible "impossible with the approach OpenAI is using" != "impossible"
- namaria 2y ago
  Look, any sufficiently complex autonomous system necessitates a bigger, more complex one to maintain it's functionality. The more complex, the harder it is to deal with the entropy that this system is removing form it's target action area. Eventually you need a whole universe capable of sustaining self reproducing intelligent systems. The way to get intelligent autonomous and sufficiently complex systems to do anything non trivial is life. Anyone trying to sell you a box they say is capable of non trivial, adaptive, complex behavior autonomously is selling you a perpetual motion machine: a pretense that thermodynamics can be suspended at will.
namaria 2y ago
Yes, I am saying that AGI is impossible. AGI is either human intelligence behind the curtains or a pie in the sky.