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At the risk of re-opening this.. I can concisely now say that all along I have only been asking: "is this useful?" I would postulate, for the starlink and mon

At the risk of re-opening this.. I can concisely now say that all along I have only been asking: "is this useful?" I would postulate, for the starlink and month free to be useful the following are needed: (A) access to the device, (B) ability to pay (C) meaningful numbers deployed (D) no other alternatives (ie: existing conventional means) We hashed out A, B, D already. C is difficult to know, perhaps only SpaceX can answer. Counting twitter responses can give us a minimum, but that is only so useful. This response from Astroid I think exemplifies how this conversation went off the rails: > How poor appalachia is entirely irrelevant, the people aren't helicoptering out to bring StarLinks back to trick the community into getting locked into hardware. This is an example of arguing against an imagined conversation. Who is able, and how they are paying for the devices is important - otherwise they are not useful. The suggestion that I am instead implying a nefarious motive to get device lock in is imagined. That was not this conversation. A case study of what it looks like when people are talking at each other and not to each other.

inemesitaffia 2y ago
C: More than whatever FEMA is providing. I've seen video of single people with more dishes than FEMA claimed. This is access at central locations where people gather. Retail stores, homes, government agencies like Police and fire, County Offices etc It's free at the point of use to residents so questions about paying are words in wind. This devices are for the use of first responders and temporary access for local residents. By first responders I don't mean government, not even State/Local. They already had dishes, before FEMA was there, before the cell providers were there, before any SpaceX intervention. and today there's still people without access to communications. Towers still gone, wired services out. And more starlink dishes coming in. There's flooded towns officially out of the disaster area where both FEMA and SpaceX aren't. For many people in the region, starlink dishes whether directly, on towers, or on cells on wheels or some other SATCOM provider was the first time they were able to communicate post disaster.
- seadan83 2y ago
  > For many people in the region, starlink dishes whether directly, on towers, or on cells on wheels or some other SATCOM provider was the first time they were able to communicate post disaster. Re C: "Many" is not a specific number nor an estimate of magnitude. "I don't know" is fine. Nonetheless, more than zero, is still great. Re: first time. I find it odd to say that, since whomever brought the device in would have been the first communication. I've been on the ground for a week now. The utility of starlink is niche. Albeit, a useful niche. Is it someone's home not being flooded and all of their possessions not dumped across the street? No. Is it baby formula that is now badly needed, no. Hence, niche. My thoughts are now this whole thread/news "article" is hacker news clickbait. The only discussion needed here were really just two words, 'okay, great.' That and, donate to the red cross, BeLoved Asheville, or any church in western NC. This topic I believe started on twitter, I wish it stayed there. I am biased against technophilia, and wish data and facts could rule the day. That and I've learned to be skeptical of any claim, and technophilia is full of fanciful ckaims without evidence. I spent the day today pulling soaked insulation out of a home. They are going to be cold this winter, lost everything. The river nearby rose by 29 feet. That was just one home amongst many.
  - inemesitaffia 2y ago
    SpaceX can't do everything for everyone. But they will do what they will. https://x.com/TheShawnHendrix/status/1844812943529254942 https://x.com/TheShawnHendrix/status/1844812943529254942 You can see the offer been extended and how much it's helping here. But as I pointed to someone else, 300 days and a free dish would still bring complaints. I've seen someone already saying 80 days is nothing. The same person would still tell you Starlink is unviable. You can't win so don't play these games
    - seadan83 2y ago
      > SpaceX can't do everything for everyone. But they will do what they will. This underscores two points I think. The first, the question of whether starlink was anything. The second point, context. At a point, a can opener is literally more valuable. The larger context, so many people have lost everything, there are many dead. Though, starlink and free service is very far from nothing too! (Read on, I'm not at all hating on starlink) > You can see the offer been extended and how much it's helping here. That is great. I was wondering again a bit about the monthly cost now that we are closing in on the first month. FWIW, starlinks are now on BeLoved Ashevilles requested items list. [1] I'm not sure when it appeared. Other requested items lists I had seen did not have it (those lists did have can openers as a top requested along with baby diapers and formula) > I've seen someone already saying 80 days is nothing That does seem myopic IMO. Though, the recovery is going to be many months. Context is key IMO. There are lots of really significant needs. I personally think the technophiles forget that there is more to life than internet, a lot more. That is just my 2 cents. At the same time, yeah, the utility is there. It is hard to know though objectively to what extent. On the other side, there are so many needs. Many homes that need to be dried before they mold, many that need repair, electricity back, roads fixed, many homes need demo and rebuild. All help is needed, this is an all hands on deck situation. > The same person would still tell you Starlink is unviable. I would wonder unviable for what? As a bridge for normal services, for some specific cases it seems like it is very much proving itself. The listing on BeLoved Asheville says a lot too. I do wonder about long term payment, though it could be moot as in part the highest utility so far is as a bridge pending normal services. Getting past the most acute phase will take more time. The offer extended until the end of the year should go a long way. > You can't win so don't play these games Sigh. Asking, "is this objectively useful, and to what extent?" should have been a somewhat straight forward question and answer. It is not about winning. Just info and keeping things in context. Is starlink the best thing since sliced toast? Maybe (proof needed) Is it single handedly saving the entirety of NC? Clearly not, it cannot since it is just one need of many. Does it have its demonstrated uses? Yes. Re: winning. I'm on track to have delivered 4000 diapers, 50lbs of food, $500 worth of PPE, and manual labor to hard hit areas. Recovery is important, that is what matters. That is as close to "winning" as I'll get (and I get to come home to power, water, and my stuff - the people in need get none of those right now). There is no "winning" here. Being skeptical of a claim and asking that the proof be shown, and seeing some of that - is illumination. It is neither winning nor losing. Again, so much of this seems to be hacker news clickbait. The discussion also very Twitter-esque. My impression is twitter is about "winning" and then dunking. Hence, viewpoints are assumed. Eg: 'Oh, this sounds like Y, therefore they must also believe Z too' Coming back to it, there's hundreds of thousands impacted (AFAIK), with hundreds of different needs. Starlink is seemingly objectively helpful, it is a piece of the overall picture. The free service needed context to be better understood why that was helpful. But, technology has its role and does help some things. Perspective. Finding places with clean water, phone charging, that is internet facilitated [2] and starlink has an obvious role there. Yet, technology (specifically internet) does not solve all problems - for some things you simply need four walls, a roof, a hammer, a neighbor, and a can opener. Please donate to red cross or BeLoved Asheville if you can. [1] https://www.belovedasheville.com/donate/ https://www.belovedasheville.com/donate/ [2] Source is my recollection. Somewhere on beloved asheville I think they had maps of such things. I recall seeing FB posts helping direct people to such places as well.
- seadan83 2y ago
  Re: "This devices are for the use of first responders and temporary access for local residents. By first responders I don't mean government, not even State/Local." Are we talking in circles? Very early on, I already wrote (is there an important distinction I'm missing?): > Though, in fairness, I do see utility to have a starlink on the back of a pickup truck with a bunch of supplies heading into a small, cut-off, town of 100 and then coordinating further relief effort. At the same time, supplies and evac are more priority. Which is to say, the use case where I think this shines is for emergency workers.
  - inemesitaffia 2y ago
    I've dropped several links
    - seadan83 2y ago
      My point was you were recently writing things that I had already far previously agreed with.

inemesitaffia 2y ago

C: More than whatever FEMA is providing. I've seen video of single people with more dishes than FEMA claimed. This is access at central locations where people gather. Retail stores, homes, government agencies like Police and fire, County Offices etc It's free at the point of use to residents so questions about paying are words in wind. This devices are for the use of first responders and temporary access for local residents. By first responders I don't mean government, not even State/Local. They already had dishes, before FEMA was there, before the cell providers were there, before any SpaceX intervention. and today there's still people without access to communications. Towers still gone, wired services out. And more starlink dishes coming in. There's flooded towns officially out of the disaster area where both FEMA and SpaceX aren't. For many people in the region, starlink dishes whether directly, on towers, or on cells on wheels or some other SATCOM provider was the first time they were able to communicate post disaster.

seadan83 2y ago
> For many people in the region, starlink dishes whether directly, on towers, or on cells on wheels or some other SATCOM provider was the first time they were able to communicate post disaster. Re C: "Many" is not a specific number nor an estimate of magnitude. "I don't know" is fine. Nonetheless, more than zero, is still great. Re: first time. I find it odd to say that, since whomever brought the device in would have been the first communication. I've been on the ground for a week now. The utility of starlink is niche. Albeit, a useful niche. Is it someone's home not being flooded and all of their possessions not dumped across the street? No. Is it baby formula that is now badly needed, no. Hence, niche. My thoughts are now this whole thread/news "article" is hacker news clickbait. The only discussion needed here were really just two words, 'okay, great.' That and, donate to the red cross, BeLoved Asheville, or any church in western NC. This topic I believe started on twitter, I wish it stayed there. I am biased against technophilia, and wish data and facts could rule the day. That and I've learned to be skeptical of any claim, and technophilia is full of fanciful ckaims without evidence. I spent the day today pulling soaked insulation out of a home. They are going to be cold this winter, lost everything. The river nearby rose by 29 feet. That was just one home amongst many.
- inemesitaffia 2y ago
  SpaceX can't do everything for everyone. But they will do what they will. https://x.com/TheShawnHendrix/status/1844812943529254942 https://x.com/TheShawnHendrix/status/1844812943529254942 You can see the offer been extended and how much it's helping here. But as I pointed to someone else, 300 days and a free dish would still bring complaints. I've seen someone already saying 80 days is nothing. The same person would still tell you Starlink is unviable. You can't win so don't play these games
  - seadan83 2y ago
    > SpaceX can't do everything for everyone. But they will do what they will. This underscores two points I think. The first, the question of whether starlink was anything. The second point, context. At a point, a can opener is literally more valuable. The larger context, so many people have lost everything, there are many dead. Though, starlink and free service is very far from nothing too! (Read on, I'm not at all hating on starlink) > You can see the offer been extended and how much it's helping here. That is great. I was wondering again a bit about the monthly cost now that we are closing in on the first month. FWIW, starlinks are now on BeLoved Ashevilles requested items list. [1] I'm not sure when it appeared. Other requested items lists I had seen did not have it (those lists did have can openers as a top requested along with baby diapers and formula) > I've seen someone already saying 80 days is nothing That does seem myopic IMO. Though, the recovery is going to be many months. Context is key IMO. There are lots of really significant needs. I personally think the technophiles forget that there is more to life than internet, a lot more. That is just my 2 cents. At the same time, yeah, the utility is there. It is hard to know though objectively to what extent. On the other side, there are so many needs. Many homes that need to be dried before they mold, many that need repair, electricity back, roads fixed, many homes need demo and rebuild. All help is needed, this is an all hands on deck situation. > The same person would still tell you Starlink is unviable. I would wonder unviable for what? As a bridge for normal services, for some specific cases it seems like it is very much proving itself. The listing on BeLoved Asheville says a lot too. I do wonder about long term payment, though it could be moot as in part the highest utility so far is as a bridge pending normal services. Getting past the most acute phase will take more time. The offer extended until the end of the year should go a long way. > You can't win so don't play these games Sigh. Asking, "is this objectively useful, and to what extent?" should have been a somewhat straight forward question and answer. It is not about winning. Just info and keeping things in context. Is starlink the best thing since sliced toast? Maybe (proof needed) Is it single handedly saving the entirety of NC? Clearly not, it cannot since it is just one need of many. Does it have its demonstrated uses? Yes. Re: winning. I'm on track to have delivered 4000 diapers, 50lbs of food, $500 worth of PPE, and manual labor to hard hit areas. Recovery is important, that is what matters. That is as close to "winning" as I'll get (and I get to come home to power, water, and my stuff - the people in need get none of those right now). There is no "winning" here. Being skeptical of a claim and asking that the proof be shown, and seeing some of that - is illumination. It is neither winning nor losing. Again, so much of this seems to be hacker news clickbait. The discussion also very Twitter-esque. My impression is twitter is about "winning" and then dunking. Hence, viewpoints are assumed. Eg: 'Oh, this sounds like Y, therefore they must also believe Z too' Coming back to it, there's hundreds of thousands impacted (AFAIK), with hundreds of different needs. Starlink is seemingly objectively helpful, it is a piece of the overall picture. The free service needed context to be better understood why that was helpful. But, technology has its role and does help some things. Perspective. Finding places with clean water, phone charging, that is internet facilitated [2] and starlink has an obvious role there. Yet, technology (specifically internet) does not solve all problems - for some things you simply need four walls, a roof, a hammer, a neighbor, and a can opener. Please donate to red cross or BeLoved Asheville if you can. [1] https://www.belovedasheville.com/donate/ https://www.belovedasheville.com/donate/ [2] Source is my recollection. Somewhere on beloved asheville I think they had maps of such things. I recall seeing FB posts helping direct people to such places as well.
seadan83 2y ago
Re: "This devices are for the use of first responders and temporary access for local residents. By first responders I don't mean government, not even State/Local." Are we talking in circles? Very early on, I already wrote (is there an important distinction I'm missing?): > Though, in fairness, I do see utility to have a starlink on the back of a pickup truck with a bunch of supplies heading into a small, cut-off, town of 100 and then coordinating further relief effort. At the same time, supplies and evac are more priority. Which is to say, the use case where I think this shines is for emergency workers.
- inemesitaffia 2y ago
  I've dropped several links
  - seadan83 2y ago
    My point was you were recently writing things that I had already far previously agreed with.