5 ms·

Web apps are complicated because we chose to make them complicated. We started with HTTP headers being sent over a socket and added on infinite layers of shit t

Web apps are complicated because we chose to make them complicated. We started with HTTP headers being sent over a socket and added on infinite layers of shit to "abstract" things. As if hiding what is actually going on is inherently helpful. Your framework preserves the status quo rather than simplifying it.

nwienert 2y ago
I think people draw the line arbitrarily. Do you know how complex an OS is, a browser, etc. JS is super complicated, so is even CSS. The iPhone is more “complicated” than an old blackberry, in a way. It’s also way simpler and more useful. Complicated has nothing to do with amount of features, abstractions, or tech choices. It’s all in the thought and effort put into the final product. It is harder to pull off with more layers, I hope we can make it work.
- henning 2y ago
  Yes, modern computer systems are unbelievably complicated from the application level down to the hardware. The consequences are absolutely devastating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRE7HIO3vk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRE7HIO3vk
- v1ne 2y ago
  I agree, people often underestimate the complexity of a browser and its ecosystem. Yet, I find it valuable that people question the merit of all these additional layers, especially those added by JS frameworks. What do they yield? Do they allow you to more quickly develop an application? Are the applications better than before, by any metric? I'm pretty sceptical because coming from real-time & desktop programs, I find UX on most web apps I use leaves a lot to be desired: I regularly see state inconsistencies when I go back & forward in my browser, I cause race conditions by quickly editing fields, fight with input validation missing my input, and just die a slow death because the page is just slow. I would have assumed that frameworks existed to remove all these burdens from developers. Yet that such issues persist so stubbornly for over a decade shows to me that somehow, even such simple and recurring tasks as providing and validating forms are not properly solved by those frameworks (or the field is full of people that don't know how to use them properly? Then, why is using them correctly not easier?).

nwienert 2y ago

I think people draw the line arbitrarily. Do you know how complex an OS is, a browser, etc. JS is super complicated, so is even CSS. The iPhone is more “complicated” than an old blackberry, in a way. It’s also way simpler and more useful. Complicated has nothing to do with amount of features, abstractions, or tech choices. It’s all in the thought and effort put into the final product. It is harder to pull off with more layers, I hope we can make it work.

henning 2y ago
Yes, modern computer systems are unbelievably complicated from the application level down to the hardware. The consequences are absolutely devastating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRE7HIO3vk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRE7HIO3vk
v1ne 2y ago
I agree, people often underestimate the complexity of a browser and its ecosystem. Yet, I find it valuable that people question the merit of all these additional layers, especially those added by JS frameworks. What do they yield? Do they allow you to more quickly develop an application? Are the applications better than before, by any metric? I'm pretty sceptical because coming from real-time & desktop programs, I find UX on most web apps I use leaves a lot to be desired: I regularly see state inconsistencies when I go back & forward in my browser, I cause race conditions by quickly editing fields, fight with input validation missing my input, and just die a slow death because the page is just slow. I would have assumed that frameworks existed to remove all these burdens from developers. Yet that such issues persist so stubbornly for over a decade shows to me that somehow, even such simple and recurring tasks as providing and validating forms are not properly solved by those frameworks (or the field is full of people that don't know how to use them properly? Then, why is using them correctly not easier?).