4 ms·

One thing I've noticed with the set of music generation tools (eg Udio, Suno) is that there's a sort of profound attachment to songs that you create. With all

One thing I've noticed with the set of music generation tools (eg Udio, Suno) is that there's a sort of profound attachment to songs that you create. With all due respect, how could there be when at the click of a button you can generate entire songs? You didn't come up with the chord progression, the structure, the melodic motifs, or the lyrics. My attachment to my works is directly proportional to the amount of effort it took to create them.

s3p 2y ago
I think OP is saying they really enjoy the song. Not that they feel it is their magnum opus.
wantsanagent 2y ago
Imagine you've had an idea bouncing around in your head, or even an emotion, for a long time and you've never been able to express it. Then one day you push a button and a piece of art captures what you've been feeling perfectly. It's not the craft that drives attachment in this case but the emotional resonance of something that you think should exist finally existing.
- changing1999 2y ago
  AI mentioned above is not at the level of capturing and expressing ideas or emotions beyond "a sad rock song about a breakup". Try guiding it to express any clearly formed musical idea. Author's attachment is to a large degree based on the false notion that they somehow contributed to the creation process. The generic, frigid, un-interesting "product" that is produced by said AI is why no one other than the prompter is moved by the result.
  - jcims 2y ago
    This is a tad overwrought. There is a creative process, but it’s much more akin to simple producing rather than composing. My point wasn’t to debate the merit of generated music, it was simply to highlight the effect I described.
    - changing1999 2y ago
      It's not closer to producing that it is to composing. In fact, I would say it's closer to composing in the sense that you can at least add lyrics and pick a genre. Production requires specifying very precise requirements, which the current gen AI is unable to follow. Even at the most fuzzy production level like "a song with strings and a choir", Suno will generate something completely irrelevant. And if you will try to go deeper -- use a classic Moog synth line in the chorus -- don't expect to generate something meaningful. I won't argue that in the most broad sense, prompt engineering is a creative process. Picking which shoes to wear to work is also a creative process. My argument is that this has barely anything to do with the process of music composition or production. You can literally reuse the same prompt to generate an image or a poem.
  - joshstrange 2y ago
    That’s just not true. I’ve used Suno to generate songs where I have provided all the lyrics. Those lyrics came from a combo of LLMs and my steering/direct edits and then I ran the lyrics through Suno multiple times until I got something I wanted. I can agree that: > "a sad rock song about a breakup" Is probably not going to capture or express your ideas or emotions because you haven’t given it enough. In contrast, writing the lyrics or giving the model a ton more context can absolutely produce something that captures and expresses your ideas and emotions. At the end of the day I don’t make music for the masses (hell, I’ve only generated a handful of final songs that I’ve liked) but the people I have made them for (or the ones just for me) have enjoyed them quite a bit. I’m not a songwriter nor am I a musician and I never will be. That’s not where my skills lie and it’s not a skillset I want to learn and hone. AI/LLM tools give me the ability to express myself in a medium that previously was effectively impossible and it makes people I care about smile and that’s good enough for me.
    - changing1999 2y ago
      Providing lyrics is called "writing lyrics". If you think that pasting lyrics into a prompt makes you somehow more involved in the process of writing music I don't know what to say. > can absolutely produce something that captures and expresses your ideas and emotions The right analogy here is to imagine an infinite museum where you can wander until you find a piece that expresses your emotions. It has nothing to do with the act of your expression, and everything to do with you resonating with a piece produced by someone/something else. > At the end of the day I don’t make music for the masses Fair. But you also don't "make music" for yourself. At most you write lyrics.
throwup238 2y ago
> You didn't come up with the chord progression, the structure, the melodic motifs, or the lyrics. Both Suno and Udio allow paid subscribers to upload their own clips to extend from. It works for setting up a beat or extending a full composition from a DAW. Suno's is more basic than Udio's which allows in painting and can create intros as well as extensions, but the tools are becoming more and more powerful for existing musicians. With Udio you can remix the uploaded clip so you can create the cord progression and melody using one set of instruments or styles (or hum it) and transform it into another. I also use this feature all the time to move compositions from one service to the other. Suno is better at generating intros and interesting melodies while Udio is better at the editing afterwards.
GrantS 2y ago
You can absolutely specify your own lyrics and structure to Suno.
- changing1999 2y ago
  If by "structure" you mean "add a verse and a chorus" then sure. Music composition goes slightly beyond that.
takinola 2y ago
I can imagine a painter two hundred years ago saying the same thing about photographs. How can you feel attachment to a picture when you did not make each brush stroke?
jcims 2y ago
I have no explanation. It’s not a sense of pride or accomplishment. I don’t know what it is. Maybe a small amount of pride. It’s hard to say. But there is a definite connection that feels different listening to songs i requested vs those that other people have.

s3p 2y ago

I think OP is saying they really enjoy the song. Not that they feel it is their magnum opus.

wantsanagent 2y ago

Imagine you've had an idea bouncing around in your head, or even an emotion, for a long time and you've never been able to express it. Then one day you push a button and a piece of art captures what you've been feeling perfectly. It's not the craft that drives attachment in this case but the emotional resonance of something that you think should exist finally existing.

changing1999 2y ago
AI mentioned above is not at the level of capturing and expressing ideas or emotions beyond "a sad rock song about a breakup". Try guiding it to express any clearly formed musical idea. Author's attachment is to a large degree based on the false notion that they somehow contributed to the creation process. The generic, frigid, un-interesting "product" that is produced by said AI is why no one other than the prompter is moved by the result.
- jcims 2y ago
  This is a tad overwrought. There is a creative process, but it’s much more akin to simple producing rather than composing. My point wasn’t to debate the merit of generated music, it was simply to highlight the effect I described.
  - changing1999 2y ago
    It's not closer to producing that it is to composing. In fact, I would say it's closer to composing in the sense that you can at least add lyrics and pick a genre. Production requires specifying very precise requirements, which the current gen AI is unable to follow. Even at the most fuzzy production level like "a song with strings and a choir", Suno will generate something completely irrelevant. And if you will try to go deeper -- use a classic Moog synth line in the chorus -- don't expect to generate something meaningful. I won't argue that in the most broad sense, prompt engineering is a creative process. Picking which shoes to wear to work is also a creative process. My argument is that this has barely anything to do with the process of music composition or production. You can literally reuse the same prompt to generate an image or a poem.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  That’s just not true. I’ve used Suno to generate songs where I have provided all the lyrics. Those lyrics came from a combo of LLMs and my steering/direct edits and then I ran the lyrics through Suno multiple times until I got something I wanted. I can agree that: > "a sad rock song about a breakup" Is probably not going to capture or express your ideas or emotions because you haven’t given it enough. In contrast, writing the lyrics or giving the model a ton more context can absolutely produce something that captures and expresses your ideas and emotions. At the end of the day I don’t make music for the masses (hell, I’ve only generated a handful of final songs that I’ve liked) but the people I have made them for (or the ones just for me) have enjoyed them quite a bit. I’m not a songwriter nor am I a musician and I never will be. That’s not where my skills lie and it’s not a skillset I want to learn and hone. AI/LLM tools give me the ability to express myself in a medium that previously was effectively impossible and it makes people I care about smile and that’s good enough for me.
  - changing1999 2y ago
    Providing lyrics is called "writing lyrics". If you think that pasting lyrics into a prompt makes you somehow more involved in the process of writing music I don't know what to say. > can absolutely produce something that captures and expresses your ideas and emotions The right analogy here is to imagine an infinite museum where you can wander until you find a piece that expresses your emotions. It has nothing to do with the act of your expression, and everything to do with you resonating with a piece produced by someone/something else. > At the end of the day I don’t make music for the masses Fair. But you also don't "make music" for yourself. At most you write lyrics.

throwup238 2y ago

> You didn't come up with the chord progression, the structure, the melodic motifs, or the lyrics. Both Suno and Udio allow paid subscribers to upload their own clips to extend from. It works for setting up a beat or extending a full composition from a DAW. Suno's is more basic than Udio's which allows in painting and can create intros as well as extensions, but the tools are becoming more and more powerful for existing musicians. With Udio you can remix the uploaded clip so you can create the cord progression and melody using one set of instruments or styles (or hum it) and transform it into another. I also use this feature all the time to move compositions from one service to the other. Suno is better at generating intros and interesting melodies while Udio is better at the editing afterwards.

GrantS 2y ago

You can absolutely specify your own lyrics and structure to Suno.

changing1999 2y ago
If by "structure" you mean "add a verse and a chorus" then sure. Music composition goes slightly beyond that.

takinola 2y ago

I can imagine a painter two hundred years ago saying the same thing about photographs. How can you feel attachment to a picture when you did not make each brush stroke?

jcims 2y ago

I have no explanation. It’s not a sense of pride or accomplishment. I don’t know what it is. Maybe a small amount of pride. It’s hard to say. But there is a definite connection that feels different listening to songs i requested vs those that other people have.