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I feel for dock workers, but the bulk of their job is one that is going to be replaced by automation. The industry as a whole should work on reskilling and enco

I feel for dock workers, but the bulk of their job is one that is going to be replaced by automation. The industry as a whole should work on reskilling and encouraging early retirement and such for the existing workers.

shortrounddev2 2y ago
Reskilling is not in their best interest. These people are paid enormous amounts of money because employment is so strictly controlled by their cartel. Reskilling would mean taking a paycut of $100,000+. The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >Reskilling is not in their best interest. Only because they think their job will still be around. You can only prop up an industry with inefficient fake jobs for so long, and dock workers are getting near the end of that cycle. >The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life Or just let them fail when their job is eliminated. Having some plan to step down the number of employees gradually through buy-outs, retirement, and reskilling, is the better option.
  - shortrounddev2 2y ago
    Yeah the best solution is to automate the docks, but these unions are very politically powerful, which is why their jobs still exist in the first place. It's also a bad look for a democratic president to bust unions so if Kamala wins then I think these guys are safe for another 4 years. I don't think their strategy is sustainable, but I don't think it will be very simple to get rid of them
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Isn't the proposal under discussion exactly that, set them up for life and make it in their interest?
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  The jobs max out at $40/hour on the east coast. Lots of overtime pay as well, but that's not something to encourage. That's part of the issue. west coast shoremen do indeed make 6 figures. There's less to lose in the East coast unless you truly are a workoholic. >The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life Pension plan would work fine too. But we know companies would rather die than bring that back. Loyalty is dead after all.
  - shortrounddev2 2y ago
    1/3rd of these people make more than $200k a year https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-make-longshoreman-salary/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-ma... > Lots of overtime pay as well If you believe the unions and they're not just no-show jobs
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      >If you believe the unions and they're not just no-show jobs Your link proves both my points: >That *top-tier hourly wage of $39 amounts* to just over $81,000 annually, but dockworkers can *make significantly more by taking on extra shifts* And the report you link to seems to confirm that: >During FY 2019-2020, deep-sea longshore workers (including checkers and special craft) were paid $621,858,750.79, including regular overtime wages, vacation and holiday benefits. If your argument is really that ports are paying overtime for work that isn't needed, that sounds like a problem for the government to fix. If they are instead being paid to basically be "on call" because they need docksmen there at any time, or if docking gets delayed, then that's the cost of doing business. Pretty sure risking a no show to an on-site job is less likely than just needing to be there if/when shipments drol I will grant you that the report goes very anti-union tho (and racist, for some reason) : >Today, every terminal within the Port still has special compensation packages given to certain ILA longshore workers, the majority of whom are white males connected to organized crime figures or union leadership. Based on the industry’s reported figures, the Commission has again identified over 590 individuals who collectively received over $147.6 million dollars last year in outsized salaries, or for hours they never worked. It's food for thought. But the fact that they are conflating "union leadership" with "organized crime" isn't doing them a good favor in impartiality.

shortrounddev2 2y ago

Reskilling is not in their best interest. These people are paid enormous amounts of money because employment is so strictly controlled by their cartel. Reskilling would mean taking a paycut of $100,000+. The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life

Suppafly 2y ago
>Reskilling is not in their best interest. Only because they think their job will still be around. You can only prop up an industry with inefficient fake jobs for so long, and dock workers are getting near the end of that cycle. >The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life Or just let them fail when their job is eliminated. Having some plan to step down the number of employees gradually through buy-outs, retirement, and reskilling, is the better option.
- shortrounddev2 2y ago
  Yeah the best solution is to automate the docks, but these unions are very politically powerful, which is why their jobs still exist in the first place. It's also a bad look for a democratic president to bust unions so if Kamala wins then I think these guys are safe for another 4 years. I don't think their strategy is sustainable, but I don't think it will be very simple to get rid of them
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Isn't the proposal under discussion exactly that, set them up for life and make it in their interest?
johnnyanmac 2y ago
The jobs max out at $40/hour on the east coast. Lots of overtime pay as well, but that's not something to encourage. That's part of the issue. west coast shoremen do indeed make 6 figures. There's less to lose in the East coast unless you truly are a workoholic. >The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life Pension plan would work fine too. But we know companies would rather die than bring that back. Loyalty is dead after all.
- shortrounddev2 2y ago
  1/3rd of these people make more than $200k a year https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-make-longshoreman-salary/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-ma... > Lots of overtime pay as well If you believe the unions and they're not just no-show jobs
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    >If you believe the unions and they're not just no-show jobs Your link proves both my points: >That *top-tier hourly wage of $39 amounts* to just over $81,000 annually, but dockworkers can *make significantly more by taking on extra shifts* And the report you link to seems to confirm that: >During FY 2019-2020, deep-sea longshore workers (including checkers and special craft) were paid $621,858,750.79, including regular overtime wages, vacation and holiday benefits. If your argument is really that ports are paying overtime for work that isn't needed, that sounds like a problem for the government to fix. If they are instead being paid to basically be "on call" because they need docksmen there at any time, or if docking gets delayed, then that's the cost of doing business. Pretty sure risking a no show to an on-site job is less likely than just needing to be there if/when shipments drol I will grant you that the report goes very anti-union tho (and racist, for some reason) : >Today, every terminal within the Port still has special compensation packages given to certain ILA longshore workers, the majority of whom are white males connected to organized crime figures or union leadership. Based on the industry’s reported figures, the Commission has again identified over 590 individuals who collectively received over $147.6 million dollars last year in outsized salaries, or for hours they never worked. It's food for thought. But the fact that they are conflating "union leadership" with "organized crime" isn't doing them a good favor in impartiality.