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Maybe I'm understanding this wrong, but you're asking why dockworkers don't cash out and pull the ladder up behind them?

xnx 2y ago
That is my question. People do it all the time in all kinds of situations, why not here too?
- underseacables 2y ago
  Because dockworkers have a union that can use its size and influence to slow down the shift to automation. For them its job protection which is more important for them than increasing efficiency, lowering costs etc for the shipping companies etc.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    >For them its job protection which is more important for them than increasing efficiency, lowering costs etc for the shipping companies etc. Sure, but that isn't the question they were asking. They weren't appealing to the workers sense of efficiency. They simply asked if they can be paid off.
Suppafly 2y ago
I feel for dock workers, but the bulk of their job is one that is going to be replaced by automation. The industry as a whole should work on reskilling and encouraging early retirement and such for the existing workers.
- shortrounddev2 2y ago
  Reskilling is not in their best interest. These people are paid enormous amounts of money because employment is so strictly controlled by their cartel. Reskilling would mean taking a paycut of $100,000+. The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    >Reskilling is not in their best interest. Only because they think their job will still be around. You can only prop up an industry with inefficient fake jobs for so long, and dock workers are getting near the end of that cycle. >The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life Or just let them fail when their job is eliminated. Having some plan to step down the number of employees gradually through buy-outs, retirement, and reskilling, is the better option.
    - shortrounddev2 2y ago
      Yeah the best solution is to automate the docks, but these unions are very politically powerful, which is why their jobs still exist in the first place. It's also a bad look for a democratic president to bust unions so if Kamala wins then I think these guys are safe for another 4 years. I don't think their strategy is sustainable, but I don't think it will be very simple to get rid of them
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Isn't the proposal under discussion exactly that, set them up for life and make it in their interest?
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    The jobs max out at $40/hour on the east coast. Lots of overtime pay as well, but that's not something to encourage. That's part of the issue. west coast shoremen do indeed make 6 figures. There's less to lose in the East coast unless you truly are a workoholic. >The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life Pension plan would work fine too. But we know companies would rather die than bring that back. Loyalty is dead after all.
    - shortrounddev2 2y ago
      1/3rd of these people make more than $200k a year https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-make-longshoreman-salary/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-ma... > Lots of overtime pay as well If you believe the unions and they're not just no-show jobs
nothercastle 2y ago
They probably could you would have to bribe both workers and leaders and probably something like 50-100k

xnx 2y ago

That is my question. People do it all the time in all kinds of situations, why not here too?

underseacables 2y ago
Because dockworkers have a union that can use its size and influence to slow down the shift to automation. For them its job protection which is more important for them than increasing efficiency, lowering costs etc for the shipping companies etc.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  >For them its job protection which is more important for them than increasing efficiency, lowering costs etc for the shipping companies etc. Sure, but that isn't the question they were asking. They weren't appealing to the workers sense of efficiency. They simply asked if they can be paid off.

Suppafly 2y ago

I feel for dock workers, but the bulk of their job is one that is going to be replaced by automation. The industry as a whole should work on reskilling and encouraging early retirement and such for the existing workers.

shortrounddev2 2y ago
Reskilling is not in their best interest. These people are paid enormous amounts of money because employment is so strictly controlled by their cartel. Reskilling would mean taking a paycut of $100,000+. The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >Reskilling is not in their best interest. Only because they think their job will still be around. You can only prop up an industry with inefficient fake jobs for so long, and dock workers are getting near the end of that cycle. >The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life Or just let them fail when their job is eliminated. Having some plan to step down the number of employees gradually through buy-outs, retirement, and reskilling, is the better option.
  - shortrounddev2 2y ago
    Yeah the best solution is to automate the docks, but these unions are very politically powerful, which is why their jobs still exist in the first place. It's also a bad look for a democratic president to bust unions so if Kamala wins then I think these guys are safe for another 4 years. I don't think their strategy is sustainable, but I don't think it will be very simple to get rid of them
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Isn't the proposal under discussion exactly that, set them up for life and make it in their interest?
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  The jobs max out at $40/hour on the east coast. Lots of overtime pay as well, but that's not something to encourage. That's part of the issue. west coast shoremen do indeed make 6 figures. There's less to lose in the East coast unless you truly are a workoholic. >The only way to buy these people out is to set them up for life Pension plan would work fine too. But we know companies would rather die than bring that back. Loyalty is dead after all.
  - shortrounddev2 2y ago
    1/3rd of these people make more than $200k a year https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-make-longshoreman-salary/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-ma... > Lots of overtime pay as well If you believe the unions and they're not just no-show jobs

nothercastle 2y ago

They probably could you would have to bribe both workers and leaders and probably something like 50-100k