2 ms·

> At it's heart, economics just models what naturally happens as a result of how society is constructed by people. > It's just a general rule of existing in th

> At it's heart, economics just models what naturally happens as a result of how society is constructed by people. > It's just a general rule of existing in this universe that fortune favors the fortunate and misfortune favors the misfortunate. But it is not a rule of the universe that society must allow those fortunate who make billions to keep or get that wealth.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> not a rule of the universe that society must allow those fortunate who make billions to keep or get that wealth This is a total non sequitur from the comment you're responding to. Descriptive versus prescriptive [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_and_normative_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_and_normative_economi...
- _aavaa_ 2y ago
  It is not. The comment I replied to starts with "economics just models what naturally happens as a result of how reality is constructed" and then says "a general rule of existing in this universe that fortune favors the fortunate", which the very clear implication that economics then models for us that the fortunate in our economy get more fortunate because that's how the universe is constructed. But this isn't true. The wealthy in our society get more wealthy because those are the system we have. There's no law of the universe that says we can't increase taxes more, or spend more resources to ensure those at the bottom don't starve. "when economists have to be the ones to tell them that making it a law that iron is equal in value to gold will not make everyone rich." Economists are the same people hand-wringing and saying that we couldn't possibly tax those who have too much because ... profits.
  - lazide 2y ago
    Nope. If you have wealth, that means you have tools at your disposal to protect yourself and concentrate more wealth. If you do so. If you don’t have wealth, you don’t. If society likes it or not just means others are actively trying to take it away (or not) and might still overwhelm whatever tools you have/are using. It doesn’t mean you aren’t still advantaged by having them. All you need to see that is by looking at what happens when society tries to hurt those without wealth, and how much easier that goes. Examples include everyone from warlords to drug kingpins to the ‘strongest lion’. It happens literally without societies existing, to within things like the USSR.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Economists are the same people hand-wringing and saying that we couldn't possibly tax those who have too much because ... profits Karl Marx was an economist. This is like saying engineering is fundamentally about building surveillance systems and serving ads.
Workaccount2 2y ago
>But it is not a rule of the universe that society must allow those fortunate who make billions to keep or get that wealth. No, it's not. But it's important to understand the fundamental forces at work that create such a system, because if you push too hard against those forces, they will break whatever system you create. The same way physics breaks things that push against it's forces. History is littered almost to the point of being a landfill with examples of societies trying to go against economic forces and ending up worse off because of it.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> not a rule of the universe that society must allow those fortunate who make billions to keep or get that wealth This is a total non sequitur from the comment you're responding to. Descriptive versus prescriptive [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_and_normative_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_and_normative_economi...

_aavaa_ 2y ago
It is not. The comment I replied to starts with "economics just models what naturally happens as a result of how reality is constructed" and then says "a general rule of existing in this universe that fortune favors the fortunate", which the very clear implication that economics then models for us that the fortunate in our economy get more fortunate because that's how the universe is constructed. But this isn't true. The wealthy in our society get more wealthy because those are the system we have. There's no law of the universe that says we can't increase taxes more, or spend more resources to ensure those at the bottom don't starve. "when economists have to be the ones to tell them that making it a law that iron is equal in value to gold will not make everyone rich." Economists are the same people hand-wringing and saying that we couldn't possibly tax those who have too much because ... profits.
- lazide 2y ago
  Nope. If you have wealth, that means you have tools at your disposal to protect yourself and concentrate more wealth. If you do so. If you don’t have wealth, you don’t. If society likes it or not just means others are actively trying to take it away (or not) and might still overwhelm whatever tools you have/are using. It doesn’t mean you aren’t still advantaged by having them. All you need to see that is by looking at what happens when society tries to hurt those without wealth, and how much easier that goes. Examples include everyone from warlords to drug kingpins to the ‘strongest lion’. It happens literally without societies existing, to within things like the USSR.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Economists are the same people hand-wringing and saying that we couldn't possibly tax those who have too much because ... profits Karl Marx was an economist. This is like saying engineering is fundamentally about building surveillance systems and serving ads.

Workaccount2 2y ago

>But it is not a rule of the universe that society must allow those fortunate who make billions to keep or get that wealth. No, it's not. But it's important to understand the fundamental forces at work that create such a system, because if you push too hard against those forces, they will break whatever system you create. The same way physics breaks things that push against it's forces. History is littered almost to the point of being a landfill with examples of societies trying to go against economic forces and ending up worse off because of it.