7 ms·

One thing I've noticed with the set of music generation tools (eg Udio, Suno) is that there's a sort of profound attachment to songs that you create. I've neve

by jcims 2y ago

One thing I've noticed with the set of music generation tools (eg Udio, Suno) is that there's a sort of profound attachment to songs that you create. I've never made music the old fashioned way so I'm guessing the same could be true for that as well, but there are songs I've made on Udio that I personally think are amazing but nobody else really responds to. Conversely I can see similar levels of pride and attachment from others for songs they have created that don't do anything for me. It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out when you can make just about any kind of media you wish. (Especially when you can mix this as a form of 'embodiment' to realize relationships with virtual agents operated by LLMs.)

SamBorick 2y ago
> I've never made music the old fashioned way so I'm guessing the same could be true for that as well Yes, it is. You should try it.
- grepfru_it 2y ago
  It’s the same feeling. No different from rebuilding that crazy synth you made one night, succeeding, and then being able to improv/vamp with it during a live session. It is a creative process and I urge anyone who finds the high level aspect of music creation to pursue the lower levels
corytheboyd 2y ago
> I personally think are amazing but nobody else really responds to. Welcome to making music lol. Since there is so much of it, you have to make the absolute best to even be considered. And then, because so many people make the absolute best, people only care about the persona making the music (as great as you are, you aren’t Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar, Damon Albarn). Your friends will never care about your music just because you are friends, don’t fall into that trap. Also nobody cares about music without good lyrics, because again, there is just so much instrumental content out there that sounds the same, lyrics differentiate it with a human, emotional element. Just make stuff for fun. Listen to it every now and then and feel the magic of “hehe I made that”
- changing1999 2y ago
  > Also nobody cares about music without good lyrics Well, that's an exaggeration if I've ever seen one. Firstly, so much of current chart music has atrocious lyrics. And secondly, instrumental music is very popular.
  - corytheboyd 2y ago
    You got me, I exaggerated on the internet. Sorry.
    - hackable_sand 2y ago
      U good?
changing1999 2y ago
"Music is about communication" (John Lennon, IIRC). Don't expect people to profoundly connect to music that is nothing more than a collection of regurgitated ideas. Not to sound too crass, but a parallel could be drawn to smelling one's own farts and wondering why no one else appreciates the smell.
- TranquilMarmot 2y ago
  "I microwaved this frozen pizza while I was desperately craving pizza, so it was perfect to me. Why does my friend who usually eats hand-crafted pizza not think it's as good?!"
- tavavex 2y ago
  > Don't expect people to profoundly connect to music that is nothing more than a collection of regurgitated ideas. Music is one of the worse examples to pick for claiming that people don't regurgitate in art. Everything in music builds off one another, and a lot of music (especially music that's seen as lower quality) is described as being just collections of cliches. The reason why "sad music" sounds sad isn't because there's something about instrument choices, key, chords, melody, tempo etc that is measurably intrinsically "sad" - it's because these are stereotypes that the creator has combined together to invoke a certain association in the listeners. If you were extra cynical, you could describe the entire musical field as people largely conditioning themselves over generations to like certain qualities of sound and hate others. And that applies to almost all art. Basically everything people make is based on stuff that came before that - and it's frustrating to encounter hubris that assumes there's some magical creative process going on inside human brains that will never ever be even approximated by any other means.
  - changing1999 2y ago
    > it's frustrating to encounter hubris that assumes there's some magical creative process going on inside human brains that will never ever be even approximated by any other means Maybe we will, maybe we won't. In the same way maybe we will be able to create life artificially, maybe not. The AI I am critiquing today is what Tamagotchi is to human life. Sure, you can get attached to it and think it's expressing real emotions and wonder why other people are being "hubris" by not realizing how wonderful it is.
vunderba 2y ago
One thing I've noticed with the set of music generation tools (eg Udio, Suno) is that there's a sort of profound attachment to songs that you create. With all due respect, how could there be when at the click of a button you can generate entire songs? You didn't come up with the chord progression, the structure, the melodic motifs, or the lyrics. My attachment to my works is directly proportional to the amount of effort it took to create them.
- s3p 2y ago
  I think OP is saying they really enjoy the song. Not that they feel it is their magnum opus.
- wantsanagent 2y ago
  Imagine you've had an idea bouncing around in your head, or even an emotion, for a long time and you've never been able to express it. Then one day you push a button and a piece of art captures what you've been feeling perfectly. It's not the craft that drives attachment in this case but the emotional resonance of something that you think should exist finally existing.
  - changing1999 2y ago
    AI mentioned above is not at the level of capturing and expressing ideas or emotions beyond "a sad rock song about a breakup". Try guiding it to express any clearly formed musical idea. Author's attachment is to a large degree based on the false notion that they somehow contributed to the creation process. The generic, frigid, un-interesting "product" that is produced by said AI is why no one other than the prompter is moved by the result.
    - jcims 2y ago
      This is a tad overwrought. There is a creative process, but it’s much more akin to simple producing rather than composing. My point wasn’t to debate the merit of generated music, it was simply to highlight the effect I described.
Kiro 2y ago
This is not unique to AI. People simply don't care about your stuff. Ask any regular artist or game developer.
scudsworth 2y ago
link a song you prompted that you personally think is amazing
- scudsworth 2y ago
  https://www.udio.com/creators/jcims https://www.udio.com/creators/jcims yeah its not surprising that you wouldn't volunteer this, man
  - jcims 2y ago
    This is some juvenile shit, man. What did you hope to prove? That I'm right? That songs that I feel a connection to sound terrible to you? An astute reader with some basic emotional intelligence would notice that is the entire point of my comment. Not that 'mouthbreathers on the Internet don't appreciate my art', but that things I 'create' by typing stuff in on a keyboard still manifests this odd connection that is just going to be enhanced as these capabilities increase. Those songs were something a friend of mine asked for, not the ones I was talking about. Don't worry, I've protected the internet from my poor musical taste.
    - scudsworth 2y ago
      you'll notice i didn't use the word "create" or "make" in my reply

by jcims 2y ago

SamBorick 2y ago

> I've never made music the old fashioned way so I'm guessing the same could be true for that as well Yes, it is. You should try it.

grepfru_it 2y ago
It’s the same feeling. No different from rebuilding that crazy synth you made one night, succeeding, and then being able to improv/vamp with it during a live session. It is a creative process and I urge anyone who finds the high level aspect of music creation to pursue the lower levels

corytheboyd 2y ago

> I personally think are amazing but nobody else really responds to. Welcome to making music lol. Since there is so much of it, you have to make the absolute best to even be considered. And then, because so many people make the absolute best, people only care about the persona making the music (as great as you are, you aren’t Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar, Damon Albarn). Your friends will never care about your music just because you are friends, don’t fall into that trap. Also nobody cares about music without good lyrics, because again, there is just so much instrumental content out there that sounds the same, lyrics differentiate it with a human, emotional element. Just make stuff for fun. Listen to it every now and then and feel the magic of “hehe I made that”

changing1999 2y ago
> Also nobody cares about music without good lyrics Well, that's an exaggeration if I've ever seen one. Firstly, so much of current chart music has atrocious lyrics. And secondly, instrumental music is very popular.
- corytheboyd 2y ago
  You got me, I exaggerated on the internet. Sorry.
  - hackable_sand 2y ago
    U good?

changing1999 2y ago

"Music is about communication" (John Lennon, IIRC). Don't expect people to profoundly connect to music that is nothing more than a collection of regurgitated ideas. Not to sound too crass, but a parallel could be drawn to smelling one's own farts and wondering why no one else appreciates the smell.

TranquilMarmot 2y ago
"I microwaved this frozen pizza while I was desperately craving pizza, so it was perfect to me. Why does my friend who usually eats hand-crafted pizza not think it's as good?!"
tavavex 2y ago
> Don't expect people to profoundly connect to music that is nothing more than a collection of regurgitated ideas. Music is one of the worse examples to pick for claiming that people don't regurgitate in art. Everything in music builds off one another, and a lot of music (especially music that's seen as lower quality) is described as being just collections of cliches. The reason why "sad music" sounds sad isn't because there's something about instrument choices, key, chords, melody, tempo etc that is measurably intrinsically "sad" - it's because these are stereotypes that the creator has combined together to invoke a certain association in the listeners. If you were extra cynical, you could describe the entire musical field as people largely conditioning themselves over generations to like certain qualities of sound and hate others. And that applies to almost all art. Basically everything people make is based on stuff that came before that - and it's frustrating to encounter hubris that assumes there's some magical creative process going on inside human brains that will never ever be even approximated by any other means.
- changing1999 2y ago
  > it's frustrating to encounter hubris that assumes there's some magical creative process going on inside human brains that will never ever be even approximated by any other means Maybe we will, maybe we won't. In the same way maybe we will be able to create life artificially, maybe not. The AI I am critiquing today is what Tamagotchi is to human life. Sure, you can get attached to it and think it's expressing real emotions and wonder why other people are being "hubris" by not realizing how wonderful it is.

vunderba 2y ago

One thing I've noticed with the set of music generation tools (eg Udio, Suno) is that there's a sort of profound attachment to songs that you create. With all due respect, how could there be when at the click of a button you can generate entire songs? You didn't come up with the chord progression, the structure, the melodic motifs, or the lyrics. My attachment to my works is directly proportional to the amount of effort it took to create them.

s3p 2y ago
I think OP is saying they really enjoy the song. Not that they feel it is their magnum opus.
wantsanagent 2y ago
Imagine you've had an idea bouncing around in your head, or even an emotion, for a long time and you've never been able to express it. Then one day you push a button and a piece of art captures what you've been feeling perfectly. It's not the craft that drives attachment in this case but the emotional resonance of something that you think should exist finally existing.
- changing1999 2y ago
  AI mentioned above is not at the level of capturing and expressing ideas or emotions beyond "a sad rock song about a breakup". Try guiding it to express any clearly formed musical idea. Author's attachment is to a large degree based on the false notion that they somehow contributed to the creation process. The generic, frigid, un-interesting "product" that is produced by said AI is why no one other than the prompter is moved by the result.
  - jcims 2y ago
    This is a tad overwrought. There is a creative process, but it’s much more akin to simple producing rather than composing. My point wasn’t to debate the merit of generated music, it was simply to highlight the effect I described.

Kiro 2y ago

This is not unique to AI. People simply don't care about your stuff. Ask any regular artist or game developer.

scudsworth 2y ago

link a song you prompted that you personally think is amazing

scudsworth 2y ago
https://www.udio.com/creators/jcims https://www.udio.com/creators/jcims yeah its not surprising that you wouldn't volunteer this, man
- jcims 2y ago
  This is some juvenile shit, man. What did you hope to prove? That I'm right? That songs that I feel a connection to sound terrible to you? An astute reader with some basic emotional intelligence would notice that is the entire point of my comment. Not that 'mouthbreathers on the Internet don't appreciate my art', but that things I 'create' by typing stuff in on a keyboard still manifests this odd connection that is just going to be enhanced as these capabilities increase. Those songs were something a friend of mine asked for, not the ones I was talking about. Don't worry, I've protected the internet from my poor musical taste.
  - scudsworth 2y ago
    you'll notice i didn't use the word "create" or "make" in my reply