4 ms·

Urban Innovation

12 points by robg 18y ago

rglullis 18y ago
While I do agree that social interaction is key to innovation, it is also becoming less and less bound to geography. All the studies and books presented are based on the data that is older than the Internet. Hacker News is as good as a city sidewalk for the exchange of ideas. And it doesn't cost me 2k/month in rent.
- pchristensen 18y ago
  I think the Internet will strengthen the trend, rather than weaken it. People outside of a specific innovation cluster can take part in it through the internet. People that live in that cluster can participate through the Internet and in person. That's a big advantage that will only become more pronounced over time. Face to face is so much higher bandwidth that important parts of it will never be reproduced online. Why do you think YC requires you to be in person?
  - rglullis 18y ago
    Actually, I think that will be more important is the ability of people to come and go. It's the velocity of social interaction between talented people that it's important, not the amount of aggregated "human talent capital". YC requires people to be in person, but only during the 3 month period. That is the time it takes to make all the social interactions that are needed for that stage. If Internet access, smart people and population density were important to innovation, Tokyo would give birth to the majority of tech startups and cultural achievements. It doesn't.
    - pchristensen 18y ago
      Population density and personal interaction are important to innovation, but only certain kinds of innovation are highly profitable. SV has a big edge there because it has the highest density of people with the resources (mental, financial, relationship, etc) to produce tech startups. Ditto for film in LA, fashion in Milan, finance in NYC, etc.
      - h34t 18y ago
        I agree, and I'd say these differences between cities fall under the label of 'culture'. Population density and personal interaction are necessary but insufficient. I taught SAT prep in China for a couple of months. If population density and personal interaction were all that are required for innovation, my students would have been creative geniuses. Instead, the results of cultural patterns such as fear/obedience/submission to authority dominated my impressions of all but a few.
- DaniFong 18y ago
  Honestly the bandwidth on HN is pretty low. You still have huge advantages if you're meeting or working with someone in person. Written communication is different though. Like photographs, sometimes the snapshots of written thought are more expressive than the moving, interactive thing.
- h34t 18y ago
  I agree, geography is becoming less important. I've done a lot of my best work from tiny outposts in rural Canada where the internet was my only lifeline to people who even knew what Javascript was. The internet has really transformed possibilities for a lot of people who are otherwise trapped in intellectual wastelands. I think culture far outweighs other factors. Hacker News is useful because of its culture, not its algorithm (otherwise Digg would be just as good) or the size of its user base. The internet lets you find and connect with a culture that amplifies your instincts and interests. When that can lead to in-person interaction as well, all the better (and there are definite advantages to that).
nihilocrat 18y ago
The biggest socio-economic failure of the past 50 years is the insistence that the environment you grow up and live in is unimportant to your day-to-day living and your ability to conceive of the choices you have, much less your ability to actually choose them. That was the conclusion I came to after thinking about the bigger implications of this article for a bit.
- pchristensen 18y ago
  I always knew that I preferred cities to suburbs but couldn't explain why. I wasn't much more social when I lived in Chicago, I didn't actually go to most of the events and places there, but it was somehow ... better. I only recently realized that it's so much richer in information, and when I moved to the burbs, I get so much less information that I feel starved. That's also overlooking the fact that I meet fewer people, fewer kinds of people, and spend more time commuting.
  - lief79 18y ago
    So, what is the best way to over come this? If I already have a career in the suburbs and a family, how do I emulate this environment? That's the general case, which might be the easier one to address. In my specific case, I have a career in the suburbs, and I'm about to get married and probably start a family. How do I go about finding/creating a more stimulating environment? What do I look for in recognizing the highly stimulating environments? I feel like I'm in a medium environment now, and outside of the suboptimal online contact, it seems to be moving in the wrong direction.
    - pchristensen 18y ago
      1) Carefully pick your suburb - all are not created equal 2) Ditto for location within suburb - an older home near the town center usually offers more convenient stimulation than a larger home 15 minutes out. 3) If you can't do those, try to locate convenient to train station or interstates so commuting is faster and external events aren't so hard to get to.

12 points by robg 18y ago

While I do agree that social interaction is key to innovation, it is also becoming less and less bound to geography. All the studies and books presented are based on the data that is older than the Internet. Hacker News is as good as a city sidewalk for the exchange of ideas. And it doesn't cost me 2k/month in rent.

pchristensen 18y ago
I think the Internet will strengthen the trend, rather than weaken it. People outside of a specific innovation cluster can take part in it through the internet. People that live in that cluster can participate through the Internet and in person. That's a big advantage that will only become more pronounced over time. Face to face is so much higher bandwidth that important parts of it will never be reproduced online. Why do you think YC requires you to be in person?
- rglullis 18y ago
  Actually, I think that will be more important is the ability of people to come and go. It's the velocity of social interaction between talented people that it's important, not the amount of aggregated "human talent capital". YC requires people to be in person, but only during the 3 month period. That is the time it takes to make all the social interactions that are needed for that stage. If Internet access, smart people and population density were important to innovation, Tokyo would give birth to the majority of tech startups and cultural achievements. It doesn't.
  - pchristensen 18y ago
    Population density and personal interaction are important to innovation, but only certain kinds of innovation are highly profitable. SV has a big edge there because it has the highest density of people with the resources (mental, financial, relationship, etc) to produce tech startups. Ditto for film in LA, fashion in Milan, finance in NYC, etc.
    - h34t 18y ago
      I agree, and I'd say these differences between cities fall under the label of 'culture'. Population density and personal interaction are necessary but insufficient. I taught SAT prep in China for a couple of months. If population density and personal interaction were all that are required for innovation, my students would have been creative geniuses. Instead, the results of cultural patterns such as fear/obedience/submission to authority dominated my impressions of all but a few.
DaniFong 18y ago
Honestly the bandwidth on HN is pretty low. You still have huge advantages if you're meeting or working with someone in person. Written communication is different though. Like photographs, sometimes the snapshots of written thought are more expressive than the moving, interactive thing.
h34t 18y ago
I agree, geography is becoming less important. I've done a lot of my best work from tiny outposts in rural Canada where the internet was my only lifeline to people who even knew what Javascript was. The internet has really transformed possibilities for a lot of people who are otherwise trapped in intellectual wastelands. I think culture far outweighs other factors. Hacker News is useful because of its culture, not its algorithm (otherwise Digg would be just as good) or the size of its user base. The internet lets you find and connect with a culture that amplifies your instincts and interests. When that can lead to in-person interaction as well, all the better (and there are definite advantages to that).

nihilocrat 18y ago

The biggest socio-economic failure of the past 50 years is the insistence that the environment you grow up and live in is unimportant to your day-to-day living and your ability to conceive of the choices you have, much less your ability to actually choose them. That was the conclusion I came to after thinking about the bigger implications of this article for a bit.

pchristensen 18y ago
I always knew that I preferred cities to suburbs but couldn't explain why. I wasn't much more social when I lived in Chicago, I didn't actually go to most of the events and places there, but it was somehow ... better. I only recently realized that it's so much richer in information, and when I moved to the burbs, I get so much less information that I feel starved. That's also overlooking the fact that I meet fewer people, fewer kinds of people, and spend more time commuting.
- lief79 18y ago
  So, what is the best way to over come this? If I already have a career in the suburbs and a family, how do I emulate this environment? That's the general case, which might be the easier one to address. In my specific case, I have a career in the suburbs, and I'm about to get married and probably start a family. How do I go about finding/creating a more stimulating environment? What do I look for in recognizing the highly stimulating environments? I feel like I'm in a medium environment now, and outside of the suboptimal online contact, it seems to be moving in the wrong direction.
  - pchristensen 18y ago
    1) Carefully pick your suburb - all are not created equal 2) Ditto for location within suburb - an older home near the town center usually offers more convenient stimulation than a larger home 15 minutes out. 3) If you can't do those, try to locate convenient to train station or interstates so commuting is faster and external events aren't so hard to get to.