4 ms·

“It was hard for me so it should be hard for everyone else forever”? Try it with other examples: “when I had cancer the only treatment was really harsh chemo,

by olliej 2y ago

“It was hard for me so it should be hard for everyone else forever”? Try it with other examples: “when I had cancer the only treatment was really harsh chemo, the new drugs today make it way easier and that’s unfair”

dmitrygr 2y ago
You really don’t see the difference? New chemo was not available back then. Having a job is not a new concept.
- effingwewt 2y ago
  You are missing the forest for the trees. You are simply mad it doesn't benefit you directly, the problem with most people nowadays. I also paid mine back, but I'm glad this is happening. I'm also angry we don't use the funds for ie veterans instead and I also would like reform with the bailout. As you can hopefully see it's a very nuanced issue and you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
  - dmitrygr 2y ago
    I am mad that I am paying for others' bad decisions, yes! The terms on the loans were clearly explained. They agreed to them. My action is to teach my kids that in today's world, being responsible is idiotic, since uncle sam will just force those who are responsible to pay for your idiocy anyways!
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  Do you think the ratio between an average wage and an average tuition has remained constant lmao
  - dmitrygr 2y ago
    I think the ability to read a contract has decreased
    - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
      I don’t think that
  - leereeves 2y ago
    I graduated undergrad about 20 years ago, and a masters a few years ago. So I know that, yes, at the school I went to, the ratio between an average wage and an average tuition has remained roughly constant.
    - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
      Sorry for being aggressive in my reply, that was unnecessarily mean. That being said, I think you’re suffering from a small sample size. My brief research indicated a sizable increase in tuition over 20 years (2000-2020), four-year schools around 1.5x, that solidly beat inflation. I think the situation has most certainly gotten worse since you were an undergrad.
      - leereeves 2y ago
        There is definitely a wide range of costs from state to state and school to school. "Average 2023-24 public four-year in-state tuition and fees range from $6,360 in Florida and $6,700 in Wyoming to $17,170 in New Hampshire and $17,180 in Vermont." https://research.collegeboard.org/trends/college-pricing/highlights https://research.collegeboard.org/trends/college-pricing/hig... Federal aid should not be subsidizing the high costs in states like Vermont. That's a case of the states abdicating their responsibility to educate their own students affordably, and federal relief would transfer those costs to people in other states. And even in those expensive states, working through college is still possible. $20k per year is 20 hours per week at $20 per hour, which isn't unobtainable in a HCoL state, assuming the student lives with family.
        olliej 2y ago
        The cost of going to college, is the cost of: * Courses * Books * Rent * Utilities In florida (generally - I don't know where students live when going to uni): * Courses for an in state public school have increased by 30% (I've always been curious about in-state vs out-of-state - after you move to a state to go to school you're in state? maybe the first year "you're out of state" but after that you're in state, you've been paying taxes in state, voting, etc?) * Rent seems to have doubled (400-600/mo in 2004 to 1000-1300/mo now) - on campus has increased by "only" 60% but I don't know how common it is * Utilities seems to have doubled * Books weirdly seems to have actually stayed stable??! :-O In the same time student incomes seems to have increased by around 20% (which is about in line with 1.5-2% inflation). Very roughly - and approximately - the ranges seem to be 2004: Courses: 2800 Rent+Utilities: 10000 Student Earnings: 10-15k (where 15k seemed to be for >30 hours a week) 2024: Courses: 3800 Rent+Utilities: 16000 Student Earnings: 12-18k (where the high end was again people doing >30 hours a week) So in 2004 the net cash transfer was (-2.8k to 2.2k) vs 2024 where it's (-7.8k to -1.8k). Eg. the best case has gone from not needing a loan to need a loan. This is of course only for students going to an in state public university - as far as I can make out it seems that's only half of them? (but it's really hard to be sure because it doesn't seem to be easily discoverable - basically I can find lists of what proportion of students at each particular school are in state vs out of state). For out of state you are adding 13-15k to the annual expenses.

by olliej 2y ago

dmitrygr 2y ago

You really don’t see the difference? New chemo was not available back then. Having a job is not a new concept.

effingwewt 2y ago
You are missing the forest for the trees. You are simply mad it doesn't benefit you directly, the problem with most people nowadays. I also paid mine back, but I'm glad this is happening. I'm also angry we don't use the funds for ie veterans instead and I also would like reform with the bailout. As you can hopefully see it's a very nuanced issue and you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
- dmitrygr 2y ago
  I am mad that I am paying for others' bad decisions, yes! The terms on the loans were clearly explained. They agreed to them. My action is to teach my kids that in today's world, being responsible is idiotic, since uncle sam will just force those who are responsible to pay for your idiocy anyways!
BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
Do you think the ratio between an average wage and an average tuition has remained constant lmao
- dmitrygr 2y ago
  I think the ability to read a contract has decreased
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    I don’t think that
- leereeves 2y ago
  I graduated undergrad about 20 years ago, and a masters a few years ago. So I know that, yes, at the school I went to, the ratio between an average wage and an average tuition has remained roughly constant.
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    Sorry for being aggressive in my reply, that was unnecessarily mean. That being said, I think you’re suffering from a small sample size. My brief research indicated a sizable increase in tuition over 20 years (2000-2020), four-year schools around 1.5x, that solidly beat inflation. I think the situation has most certainly gotten worse since you were an undergrad.
    - leereeves 2y ago
      There is definitely a wide range of costs from state to state and school to school. "Average 2023-24 public four-year in-state tuition and fees range from $6,360 in Florida and $6,700 in Wyoming to $17,170 in New Hampshire and $17,180 in Vermont." https://research.collegeboard.org/trends/college-pricing/highlights https://research.collegeboard.org/trends/college-pricing/hig... Federal aid should not be subsidizing the high costs in states like Vermont. That's a case of the states abdicating their responsibility to educate their own students affordably, and federal relief would transfer those costs to people in other states. And even in those expensive states, working through college is still possible. $20k per year is 20 hours per week at $20 per hour, which isn't unobtainable in a HCoL state, assuming the student lives with family.
      - olliej 2y ago
        The cost of going to college, is the cost of: * Courses * Books * Rent * Utilities In florida (generally - I don't know where students live when going to uni): * Courses for an in state public school have increased by 30% (I've always been curious about in-state vs out-of-state - after you move to a state to go to school you're in state? maybe the first year "you're out of state" but after that you're in state, you've been paying taxes in state, voting, etc?) * Rent seems to have doubled (400-600/mo in 2004 to 1000-1300/mo now) - on campus has increased by "only" 60% but I don't know how common it is * Utilities seems to have doubled * Books weirdly seems to have actually stayed stable??! :-O In the same time student incomes seems to have increased by around 20% (which is about in line with 1.5-2% inflation). Very roughly - and approximately - the ranges seem to be 2004: Courses: 2800 Rent+Utilities: 10000 Student Earnings: 10-15k (where 15k seemed to be for >30 hours a week) 2024: Courses: 3800 Rent+Utilities: 16000 Student Earnings: 12-18k (where the high end was again people doing >30 hours a week) So in 2004 the net cash transfer was (-2.8k to 2.2k) vs 2024 where it's (-7.8k to -1.8k). Eg. the best case has gone from not needing a loan to need a loan. This is of course only for students going to an in state public university - as far as I can make out it seems that's only half of them? (but it's really hard to be sure because it doesn't seem to be easily discoverable - basically I can find lists of what proportion of students at each particular school are in state vs out of state). For out of state you are adding 13-15k to the annual expenses.