7 ms·

It can be both at the same time, nothing wrong with that. Win-win is real, not everything is zero sum.

by usrusr 2y ago

svnt 2y ago
My comment has little to do with zero sum, but I’ll assume you’re trying to imply that people in rural NC are going to re-subscribe to their local ISP and keep the promotional ISP, you know, once everything is repaired. But let’s change the story a little: Local ISP has all their infrastructure destroyed, but Comcast’s network is still online. Comcast offers a one-month-free promotion but you have to purchase several hundred dollars in equipment, so you are strongly incentivized to continue with Comcast afterwards. In what way is this win-win?
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  Starlink is bearing a real cost to service these new users. Yes they could donate more, but that is literally true for every single person providing relief right now.
  - svnt 2y ago
    Yes, offering the service probably has some marginal cost, but I am positive it is well within their projected (and profitable) CAC. People who are donating have zero chance of a positive financial outcome. That is why it is called a donation.
    - inemesitaffia 2y ago
      If you donate anything you have an immediate real or opportunity cost. You can't take that away.
      - svnt 2y ago
        If you donate something that is spare capacity on infrastructure that has a marginal cost of the data outflow from your servers on earth, and the customer has to buy aging hardware that you are also sitting on inventory of, and that hardware is ASP $300-$600, it is not a donation. It is extremely likely that your marginal costs for that month are only internet transit/egress to the tune of less than $0.05 per GB, and you soft cap their access such that maybe 100 GB is their practical limit for the month, you just sold a $300 device that sales were slowing on for worst-case $295, with a likely future revenue stream.
        inemesitaffia 2y ago
        Like I said elsewhere, this is something someone asked for. They valued it enough to ask for it. The fact that you don't see that or value it like they do doesn't change things. Starlink users are growing not receding. The devices have other places they can make money today. You can talk margins all you want. Opportunity costs exist. So does fixed cost amortization. Lots of these people already bought the hardware, and we're having difficulty paying for service. Imagine giving up $100+/dish guaranteed and someone talking about cents on the Internet.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      Yes, Starlink does not meet your custom-made definition of the word. Especially since you've done the work of assuming their future cash flows
  - seadan83 2y ago
    The practicality is the question. If an effort is going to be useful, it should be useful - and yes,it will have a cost.
- astroid 2y ago
  Wouldn't it be better if more local people were subscribed to StarLink to begin with? People like you literally cannot be happy about anything. Good grief. I mean, Comcast and Xfinity will probably not go down the next time this happens, right? At worse this is nice gesture that will result in a slight market correction and better outcomes for all next time.
  - svnt 2y ago
    It is marketing on the back of a natural disaster. Again, a nice gesture is actual charity, not a “the first month is free” promotional cliche.
    - inemesitaffia 2y ago
      It's actual charity addressing a particular expressed and asked for need. Someone who had dishes asked for this. It's not a wouldn't this be nice gift. Someone needed this enough to ask for this
      - svnt 2y ago
        Ok, I went and looked and the free 30-day trial was already in place weeks before the natural disaster: https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/starlink-internet-review/ https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/starlink-internet-review/ They didn’t do anything but offer the same deal they would to anyone else.
        inemesitaffia 2y ago
        You don't know what you're talking about because you're not familiar with the service. That's a 30 day trial where you pay for the product and service in full and get a full refund if you don't like it. It's nothing like what's being offered right now where people are complaining about activation issues and the service just works. Usually you get an hour free on new devices. Now it's 30 days
        2y ago

It can be both at the same time, nothing wrong with that. Win-win is real, not everything is zero sum.

by usrusr 2y ago

It can be both at the same time, nothing wrong with that. Win-win is real, not everything is zero sum.

svnt 2y ago

My comment has little to do with zero sum, but I’ll assume you’re trying to imply that people in rural NC are going to re-subscribe to their local ISP and keep the promotional ISP, you know, once everything is repaired. But let’s change the story a little: Local ISP has all their infrastructure destroyed, but Comcast’s network is still online. Comcast offers a one-month-free promotion but you have to purchase several hundred dollars in equipment, so you are strongly incentivized to continue with Comcast afterwards. In what way is this win-win?

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
Starlink is bearing a real cost to service these new users. Yes they could donate more, but that is literally true for every single person providing relief right now.
- svnt 2y ago
  Yes, offering the service probably has some marginal cost, but I am positive it is well within their projected (and profitable) CAC. People who are donating have zero chance of a positive financial outcome. That is why it is called a donation.
  - inemesitaffia 2y ago
    If you donate anything you have an immediate real or opportunity cost. You can't take that away.
    - svnt 2y ago
      If you donate something that is spare capacity on infrastructure that has a marginal cost of the data outflow from your servers on earth, and the customer has to buy aging hardware that you are also sitting on inventory of, and that hardware is ASP $300-$600, it is not a donation. It is extremely likely that your marginal costs for that month are only internet transit/egress to the tune of less than $0.05 per GB, and you soft cap their access such that maybe 100 GB is their practical limit for the month, you just sold a $300 device that sales were slowing on for worst-case $295, with a likely future revenue stream.
      - inemesitaffia 2y ago
        Like I said elsewhere, this is something someone asked for. They valued it enough to ask for it. The fact that you don't see that or value it like they do doesn't change things. Starlink users are growing not receding. The devices have other places they can make money today. You can talk margins all you want. Opportunity costs exist. So does fixed cost amortization. Lots of these people already bought the hardware, and we're having difficulty paying for service. Imagine giving up $100+/dish guaranteed and someone talking about cents on the Internet.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    Yes, Starlink does not meet your custom-made definition of the word. Especially since you've done the work of assuming their future cash flows
- seadan83 2y ago
  The practicality is the question. If an effort is going to be useful, it should be useful - and yes,it will have a cost.
astroid 2y ago
Wouldn't it be better if more local people were subscribed to StarLink to begin with? People like you literally cannot be happy about anything. Good grief. I mean, Comcast and Xfinity will probably not go down the next time this happens, right? At worse this is nice gesture that will result in a slight market correction and better outcomes for all next time.
- svnt 2y ago
  It is marketing on the back of a natural disaster. Again, a nice gesture is actual charity, not a “the first month is free” promotional cliche.
  - inemesitaffia 2y ago
    It's actual charity addressing a particular expressed and asked for need. Someone who had dishes asked for this. It's not a wouldn't this be nice gift. Someone needed this enough to ask for this
    - svnt 2y ago
      Ok, I went and looked and the free 30-day trial was already in place weeks before the natural disaster: https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/starlink-internet-review/ https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/starlink-internet-review/ They didn’t do anything but offer the same deal they would to anyone else.
      - inemesitaffia 2y ago
        You don't know what you're talking about because you're not familiar with the service. That's a 30 day trial where you pay for the product and service in full and get a full refund if you don't like it. It's nothing like what's being offered right now where people are complaining about activation issues and the service just works. Usually you get an hour free on new devices. Now it's 30 days
        2y ago