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I imagine whoever got the 99 year lease is feeling pretty pleased about it - that's basically forever as far as they can tell. On the other hand, I bet the UK

I imagine whoever got the 99 year lease is feeling pretty pleased about it - that's basically forever as far as they can tell. On the other hand, I bet the UK in 1997 would have hoped for a longer lease on Hong Kong.

khuey 2y ago
Sea level rise may mean that a 99 year lease is longer than the island will be habitable.
- tightbookkeeper 2y ago
  I’ll take that bet.
  - morkalork 2y ago
    You should move to Nantucket island then, lots of prime real-estate there
    - itsoktocry 2y ago
      The real estate in Nantucket is extremely expensive, how does this comment make sense?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- thehappypm 2y ago
  Erm, even if the coast is flooded, Mauritius is a big island with plenty of land well above sea level.
  - ojbyrne 2y ago
    The discussion is about Diego Garcia.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Also decreased oil consumption as a result of renewable energy sources (decreasing the Middle East's importance) and climate change opening up northern shipping routes (decreasing the SE Asia - Suez Canal importance). In 99 years, being able to exert influence in the region will likely be less important to global trade.
- ta1243 2y ago
  At what point does sea level rise remove a countries EEZ claim. Seems that it's a real issue -- https://www.reuters.com/investigations/sinking-tuvalu-fights-keep-maritime-boundaries-sea-levels-rise-2024-09-24/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/sinking-tuvalu-fights...
throwawaymaths 2y ago
Probably not. In 1997 they were happy to court the $$ associated with opening up this huge new market of 1b+ "middle class" consumers. Id argue they still aren't sufficiently butthurt about it. The UK has sufficient grounds to reclaim HK since china has very much failed to uphold its agreement to keep hong kong democratic for at least 50 years. I guess that's why the CPC goes on gaslighting rants about "whole process democracy" like Jesus CPC. You just had to wait 20 years, what the hell is the rush?
- shortrounddev2 2y ago
  I think China is increasingly driven by the ego of Xi Jinping and not the internal machinations of party politics.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    He is 71 and getting older. A lot of crazy things look more reasonable when you've had absolute power for a decade and aren't overly concerned about consequences in 20 years.
    - vkou 2y ago
      A lot of crazy things look more reasonable when you realize that your metric for 'crazy' and 'not crazy' is less about gauging the mental state of the person making those decisions, and more about how much/little they upset Western interests.
      - ethbr1 2y ago
        Invading sovereign nations is pretty crazy. (Said to castigate both western and non-western countries) Sometimes the standards of human decency are global.
        dmz73 2y ago
        If you look at the history of the last 2000+ years in Europe and Asia, invading sovereign nations (or whatever you want to call the equivalent over that period) is pretty much the norm...so not crazy. Is it violating the standard of human decency if that seems to be the norm? Maybe we humans are not as decent as we would like to thing we are.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
p_l 2y ago
I've seen few mentions that PRC actually expected UK to extend the lease, and was surprised when UK didn't...
jowea 2y ago
Even if that lease was permanent I doubt the PRC would just let it be. The time limit just meant they could just wait instead of having to negotiate or invade.
trompetenaccoun 2y ago
Hong Kong island was ceded to the British in perpetuity. The 99 years lease of the New Territories (not Hong Kong, technically) was an additional unequal treaty that the Qing were forced into on top of it, after they also had to give up Kowloon. The British could have asked for 150 years too, who'd have stopped them? Now the same happens to Britain in reverse. There is no benefit for any state to give up territory for nothing in return, why would they be "pretty pleased" about it? Also not only is Britain ceding its territory but they're actually paying rent to keep a base on what was previously their own land! It almost feels like China is involved in this because the number doesn't sound like something Mauritius would come up with on their own. See other 99 year leases the CCP is involved in, they're obsessed with this number: https://ceylontoday.lk/2023/08/31/over-1200-acres-of-sri-lanka-under-a-99-year-lease-to-china/ https://ceylontoday.lk/2023/08/31/over-1200-acres-of-sri-lan... https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-says-not-necessary-cancel-chinese-firms-lease-darwin-port-2023-10-20 https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-says-no... https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/25/asia-pacific/chinas-7-5-billion-myanmar-port-crazy-suu-kyi-adviser-says/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/25/asia-pacific/ch...
- klelatti 2y ago
  > It almost feels like China is involved in this because the number doesn't sound like something Mauritius would come up with on their own. See other 99 year leases the CCP is involved in, they're obsessed with this number Err 99 leases are common in lots of places. 99 years is a bit more than a lifetime so not many people care much about what happens afterwards. And it is a lot shorter than in perpetuity which would look bad for whoever is granting it.
  - peterashford 2y ago
    The forced dispossession of the islanders of their home was a crime against humanity by the UK in the first place. This is righting an abysmal wrong
    - impossiblefork 2y ago

khuey 2y ago

Sea level rise may mean that a 99 year lease is longer than the island will be habitable.

tightbookkeeper 2y ago
I’ll take that bet.
- morkalork 2y ago
  You should move to Nantucket island then, lots of prime real-estate there
  - itsoktocry 2y ago
    The real estate in Nantucket is extremely expensive, how does this comment make sense?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
thehappypm 2y ago
Erm, even if the coast is flooded, Mauritius is a big island with plenty of land well above sea level.
- ojbyrne 2y ago
  The discussion is about Diego Garcia.
ethbr1 2y ago
Also decreased oil consumption as a result of renewable energy sources (decreasing the Middle East's importance) and climate change opening up northern shipping routes (decreasing the SE Asia - Suez Canal importance). In 99 years, being able to exert influence in the region will likely be less important to global trade.
ta1243 2y ago
At what point does sea level rise remove a countries EEZ claim. Seems that it's a real issue -- https://www.reuters.com/investigations/sinking-tuvalu-fights-keep-maritime-boundaries-sea-levels-rise-2024-09-24/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/sinking-tuvalu-fights...

throwawaymaths 2y ago

Probably not. In 1997 they were happy to court the $$ associated with opening up this huge new market of 1b+ "middle class" consumers. Id argue they still aren't sufficiently butthurt about it. The UK has sufficient grounds to reclaim HK since china has very much failed to uphold its agreement to keep hong kong democratic for at least 50 years. I guess that's why the CPC goes on gaslighting rants about "whole process democracy" like Jesus CPC. You just had to wait 20 years, what the hell is the rush?

shortrounddev2 2y ago
I think China is increasingly driven by the ego of Xi Jinping and not the internal machinations of party politics.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  He is 71 and getting older. A lot of crazy things look more reasonable when you've had absolute power for a decade and aren't overly concerned about consequences in 20 years.
  - vkou 2y ago
    A lot of crazy things look more reasonable when you realize that your metric for 'crazy' and 'not crazy' is less about gauging the mental state of the person making those decisions, and more about how much/little they upset Western interests.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      Invading sovereign nations is pretty crazy. (Said to castigate both western and non-western countries) Sometimes the standards of human decency are global.
      - dmz73 2y ago
        If you look at the history of the last 2000+ years in Europe and Asia, invading sovereign nations (or whatever you want to call the equivalent over that period) is pretty much the norm...so not crazy. Is it violating the standard of human decency if that seems to be the norm? Maybe we humans are not as decent as we would like to thing we are.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

p_l 2y ago

I've seen few mentions that PRC actually expected UK to extend the lease, and was surprised when UK didn't...

jowea 2y ago

Even if that lease was permanent I doubt the PRC would just let it be. The time limit just meant they could just wait instead of having to negotiate or invade.

trompetenaccoun 2y ago

Hong Kong island was ceded to the British in perpetuity. The 99 years lease of the New Territories (not Hong Kong, technically) was an additional unequal treaty that the Qing were forced into on top of it, after they also had to give up Kowloon. The British could have asked for 150 years too, who'd have stopped them? Now the same happens to Britain in reverse. There is no benefit for any state to give up territory for nothing in return, why would they be "pretty pleased" about it? Also not only is Britain ceding its territory but they're actually paying rent to keep a base on what was previously their own land! It almost feels like China is involved in this because the number doesn't sound like something Mauritius would come up with on their own. See other 99 year leases the CCP is involved in, they're obsessed with this number: https://ceylontoday.lk/2023/08/31/over-1200-acres-of-sri-lanka-under-a-99-year-lease-to-china/ https://ceylontoday.lk/2023/08/31/over-1200-acres-of-sri-lan... https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-says-not-necessary-cancel-chinese-firms-lease-darwin-port-2023-10-20 https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-says-no... https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/25/asia-pacific/chinas-7-5-billion-myanmar-port-crazy-suu-kyi-adviser-says/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/25/asia-pacific/ch...

klelatti 2y ago
> It almost feels like China is involved in this because the number doesn't sound like something Mauritius would come up with on their own. See other 99 year leases the CCP is involved in, they're obsessed with this number Err 99 leases are common in lots of places. 99 years is a bit more than a lifetime so not many people care much about what happens afterwards. And it is a lot shorter than in perpetuity which would look bad for whoever is granting it.
- peterashford 2y ago
  The forced dispossession of the islanders of their home was a crime against humanity by the UK in the first place. This is righting an abysmal wrong
  - impossiblefork 2y ago