6 ms·

How long does it take to rebuild fiber infrastructure? This is not a kindness, it is a promotion. Six months would be a kindness.

by svnt 2y ago

zdragnar 2y ago
It's for disaster relief efforts, not to provide the monopolies who will be rebuilding the infrastructure a free pass.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > a free pass It’s pronounced a run for their money, i.e. competition.
- svnt 2y ago
  I’m not sure how disaster recovery will be over in a month, or how monopolies will become major Starlink users undetected.
  - zdragnar 2y ago
    The monopolies are Comcast, charter, quest etc who usually have exclusionary rights to serve high speed Internet over cable/fiber. Free starlink is meant to be a temporary patch to aid evacuation and lifesaving efforts until the communities can be reconnected physically. If anything, the monopolists should be paying for their customers to get free starlink until their own networks are back up.
    - svnt 2y ago
      They do not have exclusionary rights, that was the whole point of all of the telco and cable anti-trust work. I don’t particularly like Comcast but the internet has been successfully preserved as a commodity, and communities worth serving are very well-served. I can choose from at least four competitive ISPs that I know of, and I am not in a particularly strong market area.
silisili 2y ago
It's a start. This is a national emergency, there are still people unaccounted for and people who don't know if their family is alive or dead. This helps setting up internet at regional centers that weren't devastated, for contact and comms. Not for browsing Reddit, taking Zoom calls, and playing Roblox.
- AdamJacobMuller 2y ago
  Really considering how little power a mini draws (30 watts) it really doesn't matter how devastated a location is. You can effectively indefinitely power it with a fairly modest battery+solar setup. I've been solar powering my mini since I got it with some old hardware I had laying around, just to see if I could.
- seadan83 2y ago
  Respectfully, it might be a start that is now too late to be useful. Cell coverage is back in a lot of areas. Those in the cut off areas (via land transit) can't get the equipment anyways, and to boot any cost is a complete barrier. As far as regional centers not devastated, those would be functioning cell towers? This disaster largely incurred four issues: (1) mud slides and flooding that killed people, (2) washed out roads, (3) power outage, (4) water outage Cell towers are what you want to get back up and running. A cut off community needs food, water, or evacuation from the area. The starlink I think has its use case for the first responders. At this point, I'm not sure how it is useful anymore.
  - inemesitaffia 2y ago
    Cell coverage isn't fully back, in some cases it's backhauled over SATCOM, and people are carrying help with Mules and helicopters so the road story is nonsense. Starlink was available ages ago. This offering was requested by people on the ground.
    - seadan83 2y ago
      What part of "the road story" is nonsense exactly? Washed out roads and cut off communities AFAIK is obviously an issue. There are only so many helicopters. Are you implying each and every one were able to get water, food, evac all adequately via helicopter in a timely manner? > This offering was requested by people on the ground I agree. Though, I just don't see there being scale behind it. Is it still worthwhile? Sure. Meaningful at scale? I would want to see the data for that claim.
usrusr 2y ago
It can be both at the same time, nothing wrong with that. Win-win is real, not everything is zero sum.
- svnt 2y ago
  My comment has little to do with zero sum, but I’ll assume you’re trying to imply that people in rural NC are going to re-subscribe to their local ISP and keep the promotional ISP, you know, once everything is repaired. But let’s change the story a little: Local ISP has all their infrastructure destroyed, but Comcast’s network is still online. Comcast offers a one-month-free promotion but you have to purchase several hundred dollars in equipment, so you are strongly incentivized to continue with Comcast afterwards. In what way is this win-win?
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    Starlink is bearing a real cost to service these new users. Yes they could donate more, but that is literally true for every single person providing relief right now.
    - svnt 2y ago
      Yes, offering the service probably has some marginal cost, but I am positive it is well within their projected (and profitable) CAC. People who are donating have zero chance of a positive financial outcome. That is why it is called a donation.
      - inemesitaffia 2y ago
        If you donate anything you have an immediate real or opportunity cost. You can't take that away.
        svnt 2y ago
        If you donate something that is spare capacity on infrastructure that has a marginal cost of the data outflow from your servers on earth, and the customer has to buy aging hardware that you are also sitting on inventory of, and that hardware is ASP $300-$600, it is not a donation. It is extremely likely that your marginal costs for that month are only internet transit/egress to the tune of less than $0.05 per GB, and you soft cap their access such that maybe 100 GB is their practical limit for the month, you just sold a $300 device that sales were slowing on for worst-case $295, with a likely future revenue stream.
AdamJacobMuller 2y ago
It might be extended, it might be extended for select terminals (people who are allowing general public access?), maybe only in areas which are still down in 30 days (once we actually know that). 30 days is just an obvious number to start with and give enough time to make a reasonable assessment for better next steps.

How long does it take to rebuild fiber infrastructure? This is not a kindness, it is a promotion. Six months would be a kindness.

by svnt 2y ago

How long does it take to rebuild fiber infrastructure? This is not a kindness, it is a promotion. Six months would be a kindness.

zdragnar 2y ago

It's for disaster relief efforts, not to provide the monopolies who will be rebuilding the infrastructure a free pass.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> a free pass It’s pronounced a run for their money, i.e. competition.
svnt 2y ago
I’m not sure how disaster recovery will be over in a month, or how monopolies will become major Starlink users undetected.
- zdragnar 2y ago
  The monopolies are Comcast, charter, quest etc who usually have exclusionary rights to serve high speed Internet over cable/fiber. Free starlink is meant to be a temporary patch to aid evacuation and lifesaving efforts until the communities can be reconnected physically. If anything, the monopolists should be paying for their customers to get free starlink until their own networks are back up.
  - svnt 2y ago
    They do not have exclusionary rights, that was the whole point of all of the telco and cable anti-trust work. I don’t particularly like Comcast but the internet has been successfully preserved as a commodity, and communities worth serving are very well-served. I can choose from at least four competitive ISPs that I know of, and I am not in a particularly strong market area.

silisili 2y ago

It's a start. This is a national emergency, there are still people unaccounted for and people who don't know if their family is alive or dead. This helps setting up internet at regional centers that weren't devastated, for contact and comms. Not for browsing Reddit, taking Zoom calls, and playing Roblox.

AdamJacobMuller 2y ago
Really considering how little power a mini draws (30 watts) it really doesn't matter how devastated a location is. You can effectively indefinitely power it with a fairly modest battery+solar setup. I've been solar powering my mini since I got it with some old hardware I had laying around, just to see if I could.
seadan83 2y ago
Respectfully, it might be a start that is now too late to be useful. Cell coverage is back in a lot of areas. Those in the cut off areas (via land transit) can't get the equipment anyways, and to boot any cost is a complete barrier. As far as regional centers not devastated, those would be functioning cell towers? This disaster largely incurred four issues: (1) mud slides and flooding that killed people, (2) washed out roads, (3) power outage, (4) water outage Cell towers are what you want to get back up and running. A cut off community needs food, water, or evacuation from the area. The starlink I think has its use case for the first responders. At this point, I'm not sure how it is useful anymore.
- inemesitaffia 2y ago
  Cell coverage isn't fully back, in some cases it's backhauled over SATCOM, and people are carrying help with Mules and helicopters so the road story is nonsense. Starlink was available ages ago. This offering was requested by people on the ground.
  - seadan83 2y ago
    What part of "the road story" is nonsense exactly? Washed out roads and cut off communities AFAIK is obviously an issue. There are only so many helicopters. Are you implying each and every one were able to get water, food, evac all adequately via helicopter in a timely manner? > This offering was requested by people on the ground I agree. Though, I just don't see there being scale behind it. Is it still worthwhile? Sure. Meaningful at scale? I would want to see the data for that claim.

usrusr 2y ago

It can be both at the same time, nothing wrong with that. Win-win is real, not everything is zero sum.

svnt 2y ago
My comment has little to do with zero sum, but I’ll assume you’re trying to imply that people in rural NC are going to re-subscribe to their local ISP and keep the promotional ISP, you know, once everything is repaired. But let’s change the story a little: Local ISP has all their infrastructure destroyed, but Comcast’s network is still online. Comcast offers a one-month-free promotion but you have to purchase several hundred dollars in equipment, so you are strongly incentivized to continue with Comcast afterwards. In what way is this win-win?
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  Starlink is bearing a real cost to service these new users. Yes they could donate more, but that is literally true for every single person providing relief right now.
  - svnt 2y ago
    Yes, offering the service probably has some marginal cost, but I am positive it is well within their projected (and profitable) CAC. People who are donating have zero chance of a positive financial outcome. That is why it is called a donation.
    - inemesitaffia 2y ago
      If you donate anything you have an immediate real or opportunity cost. You can't take that away.
      - svnt 2y ago
        If you donate something that is spare capacity on infrastructure that has a marginal cost of the data outflow from your servers on earth, and the customer has to buy aging hardware that you are also sitting on inventory of, and that hardware is ASP $300-$600, it is not a donation. It is extremely likely that your marginal costs for that month are only internet transit/egress to the tune of less than $0.05 per GB, and you soft cap their access such that maybe 100 GB is their practical limit for the month, you just sold a $300 device that sales were slowing on for worst-case $295, with a likely future revenue stream.

AdamJacobMuller 2y ago

It might be extended, it might be extended for select terminals (people who are allowing general public access?), maybe only in areas which are still down in 30 days (once we actually know that). 30 days is just an obvious number to start with and give enough time to make a reasonable assessment for better next steps.