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Are you only interested in PVP? The PVE shooters can be a lot more chill (Destiny, Division, Borderlands, Remnant, etc.) If you get a friend or two together wh

Are you only interested in PVP? The PVE shooters can be a lot more chill (Destiny, Division, Borderlands, Remnant, etc.) If you get a friend or two together who don't mind oldies, the old Tom Clancy games (Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell) are a blast to play through in coop too.

ryandrake 2y ago
Will have to try them. I like shooters, but I prefer to play against push-over AI bots instead of 13 year old pro humans. I guess that's what PVE means.
- solardev 2y ago
  > I guess that's what PVE means. Well, sort of. PvE just means "player vs environment", a holdover/loan word from MMOs where that was the default, vs being able to attack other players in PvP areas. When applied to shooters, though, typically it means that the game was designed around asymmetric battles between players and AI enemies. Asymmetric means that the enemies aren't just bots taking the place of humans, with the same rules, weapons, health, etc. Instead, they are usually a mix of different enemy types... easy to kill grunts, the occasional sniper, the melee berserker, and of course the "bullet sponge" bosses that take forever to kill and feel more like old MMO raids than a normal opponent in a shooter. They're not meant to simulate real players (even shitty ones), but to give more of a feel of a traditional video game campaign. For like the super-boiled-down version of this, Serious Sam is just endless hordes of enemy types running at you. A more modern take would be the roguelite shooter genre, like Risk of Rain 2 or Gunfire Reborn, which offers only endless combat and not much else. The other titles I mentioned usually have some sort of story and some form of permanent progression in the form of new weapons, abilities, etc. If that isn't what you want, then yeah, it's bots in regular PvP shooters that you'll have to look for :( I think they are relatively rare these days, but you can still play the old Unreal Tournaments, Quakes, Doom, etc.
  - danaris 2y ago
    Worth noting that even in the FPS genre, that sort of PvE gameplay is actually the original gameplay style, that got subsumed by the massive popularity of PvP shooters later on. Early FPSes like Wolfenstein, Doom, and the Marathon trilogy were primarily about killing asymmetric AI enemies—and even sometimes (moreso in the Marathon games) progressing through a story.
    - kbolino 2y ago
      Doom had deathmatches, where you fought each other instead of the enemies. PvP in general is as old as FPS multiplayer (talking about PvE in single-player is redundant).
      - danaris 2y ago
        Sure, and so did Marathon—but they weren't yet the primary focus of the genre.
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        kbolino 2y ago
        I guess I see that more as single-player vs multiplayer rather than PvE vs PvP. But I think your point is that the emphasis shifted from an entirely developer-created experience to one where other players are a major/dominant part of the experience. This shift didn't take that long, though, with multiplayer-only games becoming prevalent (Tribes, Unreal Tournament, Quake III Arena, etc.) even before the 1990s were out, and single-player mode becoming a vestigial element even in those games that still included it before the end of the next decade.
        danaris 2y ago

ryandrake 2y ago

Will have to try them. I like shooters, but I prefer to play against push-over AI bots instead of 13 year old pro humans. I guess that's what PVE means.

solardev 2y ago
> I guess that's what PVE means. Well, sort of. PvE just means "player vs environment", a holdover/loan word from MMOs where that was the default, vs being able to attack other players in PvP areas. When applied to shooters, though, typically it means that the game was designed around asymmetric battles between players and AI enemies. Asymmetric means that the enemies aren't just bots taking the place of humans, with the same rules, weapons, health, etc. Instead, they are usually a mix of different enemy types... easy to kill grunts, the occasional sniper, the melee berserker, and of course the "bullet sponge" bosses that take forever to kill and feel more like old MMO raids than a normal opponent in a shooter. They're not meant to simulate real players (even shitty ones), but to give more of a feel of a traditional video game campaign. For like the super-boiled-down version of this, Serious Sam is just endless hordes of enemy types running at you. A more modern take would be the roguelite shooter genre, like Risk of Rain 2 or Gunfire Reborn, which offers only endless combat and not much else. The other titles I mentioned usually have some sort of story and some form of permanent progression in the form of new weapons, abilities, etc. If that isn't what you want, then yeah, it's bots in regular PvP shooters that you'll have to look for :( I think they are relatively rare these days, but you can still play the old Unreal Tournaments, Quakes, Doom, etc.
- danaris 2y ago
  Worth noting that even in the FPS genre, that sort of PvE gameplay is actually the original gameplay style, that got subsumed by the massive popularity of PvP shooters later on. Early FPSes like Wolfenstein, Doom, and the Marathon trilogy were primarily about killing asymmetric AI enemies—and even sometimes (moreso in the Marathon games) progressing through a story.
  - kbolino 2y ago
    Doom had deathmatches, where you fought each other instead of the enemies. PvP in general is as old as FPS multiplayer (talking about PvE in single-player is redundant).
    - danaris 2y ago
      Sure, and so did Marathon—but they weren't yet the primary focus of the genre.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - kbolino 2y ago
        I guess I see that more as single-player vs multiplayer rather than PvE vs PvP. But I think your point is that the emphasis shifted from an entirely developer-created experience to one where other players are a major/dominant part of the experience. This shift didn't take that long, though, with multiplayer-only games becoming prevalent (Tribes, Unreal Tournament, Quake III Arena, etc.) even before the 1990s were out, and single-player mode becoming a vestigial element even in those games that still included it before the end of the next decade.
        danaris 2y ago