5 ms·

Student loan forgiveness plan can move forward, federal judge allows

22 points by Anon84 2y ago

sickofparadox 2y ago
Student loan forgiveness probably one of the most unconscionable financial policies being pursued right now. Extracting wealth from the average person and giving it to the top 25% of lifetime earners, all over debt they agreed to take on.
APublicMan 2y ago
I feel bad for those who have their lives ruined by student debt without compensating income, but I need some reform with any bailout.
- bdcravens 2y ago
  I tend to agree, and I'm not against student loan help (I paid my loans off years ago). Something along the lines of tuition caps in order to receive loans backed by the federal government (similar to how insurance companies cap what they pay regardless of what the medical provider bills)
  - bachmeier 2y ago
    That's not how federal student loans work. You can't borrow unlimited amounts to cover any amount of tuition, and unlike insurance companies, it's not the government paying the bill. For instance, you can only get $5500 for the first year. Tuition caps would be an orthogonal policy.
    - bdcravens 2y ago
      I'm aware of the caps and the fact that the loans are backed, not paid, by the government. However, attaching conditions to eligibility is a tool the government can wield.
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        Just make them dismissable in bankruptcy and the lenders will figure out how to lend responsibly
        bachmeier 2y ago
        This comes up so much, but there's no need to fight that battle (and it would be a big one). Put a max on the percentage of your income that needs to go to student loan repayment, like 7%, and a time limit on repayment, like 10 or 20 years.
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        I like this concept! Though I worry how "creative" borrowers could be in suppressing their reportable income through the payback period...
  - krger 2y ago
    The economics of higher education in the United States are definitely ripe for reform—especially for public institutions—but I think we have much better places to be looking for ideas than the health insurance industry.
    - bdcravens 2y ago
      That was just an analogy, not the source of the idea. Government has been playing the carrots and sticks game a lot longer than the insurance industry.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Congress has no will to reform unfortunately, so you do what you can with what you have. Go forward improves due to pre-college cohorts substantially devaluing a college education and therefore avoiding it (and the loans attached) [1] [2]. To note, some employers are starting to drop the credential requirement [3] [4] [5]. If you can hire without it, why are you asking for it? [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/05/23/is-college-worth-it-2/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/05/23/is-coll... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/23/is-college-worth-the-cost.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/23/is-college-worth-the-cost.ht... [3] https://www.npr.org/2024/08/26/nx-s1-5084214/why-states-are-dropping-the-4-year-college-requirement-for-some-government-jobs https://www.npr.org/2024/08/26/nx-s1-5084214/why-states-are-... [4] https://www.highereddive.com/news/nearly-half-of-companies-plan-to-eliminate-bachelors-degree-requirements/702277/ https://www.highereddive.com/news/nearly-half-of-companies-p... [5] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/22/1-in-3-companies-are-ditching-college-degree-requirements-for-salaried-jobs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/22/1-in-3-companies-are-ditchin...
- Ancalagon 2y ago
  Remove all charges on the debt associated with interest growth over 2-3% per year. Limit all new student debt to a maximum of 2-3% interest. Cap tuition everywhere - you could ease into this by the federal government steadily decreasing caps and simultaneously reducing loan amounts. Put everyone on an income-based payment plan with a guaranteed 10-year payoff timelimit if they make all their payments (reasonable forgiveness on timely payments but more than a month late or so and that gets added on to the end of the 10-year limit). Not easy for any party, but pretty fair IMHO.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    2-3% is currently too low. I say just cap it to FED rate + 1%. After all it is government backed so rate should be same as fed rate.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
dmitrygr 2y ago
I feel like such a chump actually working throughout my college years and paying for my own college. I will be sure to teach my kids to not repeat my mistakes.
- olliej 2y ago
  “It was hard for me so it should be hard for everyone else forever”? Try it with other examples: “when I had cancer the only treatment was really harsh chemo, the new drugs today make it way easier and that’s unfair”
  - dmitrygr 2y ago
    You really don’t see the difference? New chemo was not available back then. Having a job is not a new concept.
    - effingwewt 2y ago
      You are missing the forest for the trees. You are simply mad it doesn't benefit you directly, the problem with most people nowadays. I also paid mine back, but I'm glad this is happening. I'm also angry we don't use the funds for ie veterans instead and I also would like reform with the bailout. As you can hopefully see it's a very nuanced issue and you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
      - dmitrygr 2y ago
        I am mad that I am paying for others' bad decisions, yes! The terms on the loans were clearly explained. They agreed to them. My action is to teach my kids that in today's world, being responsible is idiotic, since uncle sam will just force those who are responsible to pay for your idiocy anyways!
    - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
      Do you think the ratio between an average wage and an average tuition has remained constant lmao

22 points by Anon84 2y ago

Student loan forgiveness probably one of the most unconscionable financial policies being pursued right now. Extracting wealth from the average person and giving it to the top 25% of lifetime earners, all over debt they agreed to take on.

APublicMan 2y ago

I feel bad for those who have their lives ruined by student debt without compensating income, but I need some reform with any bailout.

bdcravens 2y ago
I tend to agree, and I'm not against student loan help (I paid my loans off years ago). Something along the lines of tuition caps in order to receive loans backed by the federal government (similar to how insurance companies cap what they pay regardless of what the medical provider bills)
- bachmeier 2y ago
  That's not how federal student loans work. You can't borrow unlimited amounts to cover any amount of tuition, and unlike insurance companies, it's not the government paying the bill. For instance, you can only get $5500 for the first year. Tuition caps would be an orthogonal policy.
  - bdcravens 2y ago
    I'm aware of the caps and the fact that the loans are backed, not paid, by the government. However, attaching conditions to eligibility is a tool the government can wield.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Just make them dismissable in bankruptcy and the lenders will figure out how to lend responsibly
      - bachmeier 2y ago
        This comes up so much, but there's no need to fight that battle (and it would be a big one). Put a max on the percentage of your income that needs to go to student loan repayment, like 7%, and a time limit on repayment, like 10 or 20 years.
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        I like this concept! Though I worry how "creative" borrowers could be in suppressing their reportable income through the payback period...
- krger 2y ago
  The economics of higher education in the United States are definitely ripe for reform—especially for public institutions—but I think we have much better places to be looking for ideas than the health insurance industry.
  - bdcravens 2y ago
    That was just an analogy, not the source of the idea. Government has been playing the carrots and sticks game a lot longer than the insurance industry.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Congress has no will to reform unfortunately, so you do what you can with what you have. Go forward improves due to pre-college cohorts substantially devaluing a college education and therefore avoiding it (and the loans attached) [1] [2]. To note, some employers are starting to drop the credential requirement [3] [4] [5]. If you can hire without it, why are you asking for it? [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/05/23/is-college-worth-it-2/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/05/23/is-coll... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/23/is-college-worth-the-cost.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/23/is-college-worth-the-cost.ht... [3] https://www.npr.org/2024/08/26/nx-s1-5084214/why-states-are-dropping-the-4-year-college-requirement-for-some-government-jobs https://www.npr.org/2024/08/26/nx-s1-5084214/why-states-are-... [4] https://www.highereddive.com/news/nearly-half-of-companies-plan-to-eliminate-bachelors-degree-requirements/702277/ https://www.highereddive.com/news/nearly-half-of-companies-p... [5] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/22/1-in-3-companies-are-ditching-college-degree-requirements-for-salaried-jobs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/22/1-in-3-companies-are-ditchin...
Ancalagon 2y ago
Remove all charges on the debt associated with interest growth over 2-3% per year. Limit all new student debt to a maximum of 2-3% interest. Cap tuition everywhere - you could ease into this by the federal government steadily decreasing caps and simultaneously reducing loan amounts. Put everyone on an income-based payment plan with a guaranteed 10-year payoff timelimit if they make all their payments (reasonable forgiveness on timely payments but more than a month late or so and that gets added on to the end of the 10-year limit). Not easy for any party, but pretty fair IMHO.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  2-3% is currently too low. I say just cap it to FED rate + 1%. After all it is government backed so rate should be same as fed rate.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

dmitrygr 2y ago

I feel like such a chump actually working throughout my college years and paying for my own college. I will be sure to teach my kids to not repeat my mistakes.

olliej 2y ago
“It was hard for me so it should be hard for everyone else forever”? Try it with other examples: “when I had cancer the only treatment was really harsh chemo, the new drugs today make it way easier and that’s unfair”
- dmitrygr 2y ago
  You really don’t see the difference? New chemo was not available back then. Having a job is not a new concept.
  - effingwewt 2y ago
    You are missing the forest for the trees. You are simply mad it doesn't benefit you directly, the problem with most people nowadays. I also paid mine back, but I'm glad this is happening. I'm also angry we don't use the funds for ie veterans instead and I also would like reform with the bailout. As you can hopefully see it's a very nuanced issue and you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
    - dmitrygr 2y ago
      I am mad that I am paying for others' bad decisions, yes! The terms on the loans were clearly explained. They agreed to them. My action is to teach my kids that in today's world, being responsible is idiotic, since uncle sam will just force those who are responsible to pay for your idiocy anyways!
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    Do you think the ratio between an average wage and an average tuition has remained constant lmao