5 ms·

The article also cites plastic takeout trays as a problem though, which is harder to avoid unless you're willing to simply never order takeout from a large perc

by NickM 2y ago

The article also cites plastic takeout trays as a problem though, which is harder to avoid unless you're willing to simply never order takeout from a large percentage of restaurants.

Amezarak 2y ago
This is really easy to avoid; cooking and eating at home is much cheaper and does not really take any more time unless you want to make something special.
- NickM 2y ago
  You're ignoring the fact that lots of people really like getting takeout. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to pay someone else to cook a nice meal for you. The answer shouldn't be "nobody who likes takeout gets to enjoy it anymore without being poisoned," the answer should be "plastic manufacturers should be stopped from secretly poisoning people."
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Amezarak 2y ago
    Unfortunately, the reality is probably just that plastic itself is bad, and you can put different lipsticks on the pig and some of them are less bad than others, but you're not really solving the problem. Of course I agree that we should avoid putting known awful chemicals in things and I will lobby for that to happen, but the easiest thing in my life to control is what I do. Takeout is a luxury. In my experience, the best thing to do is focus on the things you can control. And for whatever reason, luxuries tend to be the source of a lot of these problems and easy to cut out. This is especially the case when you consider that odds are dangerous chemicals will be replaced with chemicals not yet known to be dangerous. At the end of the day, a lot of our problems come down to consumption and convenience. How many people got cancer because nonstick was a tiny bit more convenient? Unfortunately, novel, useful substances are pretty much always going to be destructive to the biosphere in some way.
tharkun__ 2y ago
Fine by me. I can count the amount of times I ordered takeout from a restaurant on one hand. This does not include Pizza delivery like for parties or something but those come in cardboard boxes.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  With plastic coatings, unfortunately.
  - tharkun__ 2y ago
    Judging by how soaked our local pizza place's boxes get after just a little while I hope we're safe (as in it's really just corrugated cardboard) :)
    - willy_k 2y ago
      Chances are every ingredient of the pizza comes in plastic packaging, and it’s probably baked on an aluminum tray (can leak into food, associated with increased risk for Alzheimer’s). Besides, if you want to avoid carcinogens and other unwanted compounds, a reverse osmosis filter (either in-sink or countertop depending) is probably a more productive place to start, unless you switch to all home cooking but even then it’s nearly impossible to source plastic-free groceries. But if you’re going to go down that road, you might as well get your fats and vegetables straight too. Theres a lot of debate about this, but it seems like saturated fats (found in coconut oil and animal fats [0]) might not be that bad after all[1] and preferable to PUFAs (specifically Omega 6s, more specifically pro-inflammatory linoleic acid), especially in the case of stearic acid. Aside from the potential negative effects of Omega 6s, most oils apart from EVOO and unrefined avocado and coconut oils go through many processing steps that degrade and oxidize the fats while introducing contaminants including benzene. And finally, there’s oxidation, where only olive oil and coconut oil (but not avocado oil) and animal fats are amenable to cooking[2] (smoke point has no impact on health effects, insofar as it isn’t related to peroxidation index value). Regarding vegetables, they might contains various anti-nutrients including lectins, tannins, and oxalates, and animal organs and eggs have them beat for nutrients. I’m not so sure that they need to go though, but eliminating them might alleviate certain gut or other troubles. That being said, after trying for many weeks to eat ‘right’, I’ve reverted to eating burgers off plastic plates (not having an option being at college), though I am still using and very happy with an Aquatru Carafe countertop RO system. [0] https://exrx.net/Nutrition/FatComparison https://exrx.net/Nutrition/FatComparison [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9794145/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9794145/ [2] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-peroxidizability-index-of-various-lipids_tbl2_280389114 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-peroxidizability-i...

by NickM 2y ago

The article also cites plastic takeout trays as a problem though, which is harder to avoid unless you're willing to simply never order takeout from a large percentage of restaurants.

Amezarak 2y ago

This is really easy to avoid; cooking and eating at home is much cheaper and does not really take any more time unless you want to make something special.

NickM 2y ago
You're ignoring the fact that lots of people really like getting takeout. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to pay someone else to cook a nice meal for you. The answer shouldn't be "nobody who likes takeout gets to enjoy it anymore without being poisoned," the answer should be "plastic manufacturers should be stopped from secretly poisoning people."
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Amezarak 2y ago
  Unfortunately, the reality is probably just that plastic itself is bad, and you can put different lipsticks on the pig and some of them are less bad than others, but you're not really solving the problem. Of course I agree that we should avoid putting known awful chemicals in things and I will lobby for that to happen, but the easiest thing in my life to control is what I do. Takeout is a luxury. In my experience, the best thing to do is focus on the things you can control. And for whatever reason, luxuries tend to be the source of a lot of these problems and easy to cut out. This is especially the case when you consider that odds are dangerous chemicals will be replaced with chemicals not yet known to be dangerous. At the end of the day, a lot of our problems come down to consumption and convenience. How many people got cancer because nonstick was a tiny bit more convenient? Unfortunately, novel, useful substances are pretty much always going to be destructive to the biosphere in some way.

tharkun__ 2y ago

Fine by me. I can count the amount of times I ordered takeout from a restaurant on one hand. This does not include Pizza delivery like for parties or something but those come in cardboard boxes.

llamaimperative 2y ago
With plastic coatings, unfortunately.
- tharkun__ 2y ago
  Judging by how soaked our local pizza place's boxes get after just a little while I hope we're safe (as in it's really just corrugated cardboard) :)
  - willy_k 2y ago
    Chances are every ingredient of the pizza comes in plastic packaging, and it’s probably baked on an aluminum tray (can leak into food, associated with increased risk for Alzheimer’s). Besides, if you want to avoid carcinogens and other unwanted compounds, a reverse osmosis filter (either in-sink or countertop depending) is probably a more productive place to start, unless you switch to all home cooking but even then it’s nearly impossible to source plastic-free groceries. But if you’re going to go down that road, you might as well get your fats and vegetables straight too. Theres a lot of debate about this, but it seems like saturated fats (found in coconut oil and animal fats [0]) might not be that bad after all[1] and preferable to PUFAs (specifically Omega 6s, more specifically pro-inflammatory linoleic acid), especially in the case of stearic acid. Aside from the potential negative effects of Omega 6s, most oils apart from EVOO and unrefined avocado and coconut oils go through many processing steps that degrade and oxidize the fats while introducing contaminants including benzene. And finally, there’s oxidation, where only olive oil and coconut oil (but not avocado oil) and animal fats are amenable to cooking[2] (smoke point has no impact on health effects, insofar as it isn’t related to peroxidation index value). Regarding vegetables, they might contains various anti-nutrients including lectins, tannins, and oxalates, and animal organs and eggs have them beat for nutrients. I’m not so sure that they need to go though, but eliminating them might alleviate certain gut or other troubles. That being said, after trying for many weeks to eat ‘right’, I’ve reverted to eating burgers off plastic plates (not having an option being at college), though I am still using and very happy with an Aquatru Carafe countertop RO system. [0] https://exrx.net/Nutrition/FatComparison https://exrx.net/Nutrition/FatComparison [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9794145/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9794145/ [2] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-peroxidizability-index-of-various-lipids_tbl2_280389114 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-peroxidizability-i...