> in particular make it extremely hard to build well-behaved processors that can cope with parts of the compile-time code graph not existing until later rounds,

> in particular make it extremely hard to build well-behaved processors that can cope with parts of the compile-time code graph not existing until later rounds, has baffled me for a long time. I'm not exactly sure how you can really make this particular problem better when working with compile time code generation. But what I'd say WRT cleaner and clearer, Java and Kotlin both expose much higher level type information than is available in rust's proc macros. That's mostly what I meant by cleaner and clearer. Without needing to pull in weirdo not-quite-third-party libraries, you can reflect on and generate for all sort of different type information. It seems to me that something like this should be possible with rust given its early transformation into high level bytecode. But I could see why the rust devs have pushed back on doing that as it'd really lock in features they might not want to lock in.