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Related: my favorite HN comment ever from a similar submission a year ago: > There's lots of very exciting work going on around the fully mapped fruit fly conn

Related: my favorite HN comment ever from a similar submission a year ago: > There's lots of very exciting work going on around the fully mapped fruit fly connectome. For example, I'm a CTO of a stealth startup that aims to do for utilitarianism what carbon credits did for environmentalism. We are selling 'utility credits' which translates directly into us simulating trillions and trillions of fruit fly brains in a state of constant orgasmic bliss, which you can then buy to offset any actions your company has undertaken that damage global happiness or well-being. We've seen a lot of interest from some pretty large industry players. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36584130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36584130

ash1794 2y ago
Why!
- neverrroot 2y ago
  Feel good, bragging rights, entitlement
- rtkwe 2y ago
  It's a joke about utilitarianism which has had it's ups and downs but is a philosophy that has some pretty powerful adherents in the tech CEO world, notably the whole effective altruist crowd that SBF came out of. There's the Parable of Felix from SMBC [0] coming at it from the other angle of one incredibly happy person skewing the utility equation to do awful things. [0] https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120403.gif https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120403.gif
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
They have a branding opportunity. Karma Kredits Perhaps a co-branding opportunity with Krispy Kreme donuts? Buy a donut, and experience some Joy, which handily comes with Karma Kredits to offset that Joy. Have some KK with the KK!
- birracerveza 2y ago
  And those who have a lot of Karma Kredits can enter the exclusive Karma Kredits Klub!
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    "We apologize for any negative connotations brought forward by our unfortunate naming of the Karma Kredits Klub and their ceremonial white peaked hats. As compensation we will simulate 50,000 more orgasmic fruit flies. Thank you we will not be taking questions."
- bookofjoe 2y ago
  https://kk.org/ https://kk.org/
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Wash away the guilt of one-too-many Krispy Kreme with some Karma Kredits.
neverrroot 2y ago
About as useful as the carbon credits themselves
- bumby 2y ago
  Curious if you could elaborate? It seems like the issue isn’t carbon credits, but the lack of a regulated level of carbon that would make them effective. Market incentives work best with dollar incentives, not virtue points.
  - fennecfoxy 2y ago
    Carbon credits are useless for the same reason that non-proportional fines are also useless; for the incredibly wealthy the cost of speeding is the cost of the ticket. Some nations do a proportional speeding fine based on income - but that still doesn't affect the 1-0.1% whose wealth is more asset than income based.
    - bumby 2y ago
      That was effectively my point. There aren't appropriate dollar incentives to make the "market solution" work. It's really just a feel-good or virtue-signaling apparatus, not a financial market solution.
      - fennecfoxy 2y ago
        Yeah, not trying to steal your thunder, but adding to it. :)
  - dns_snek 2y ago
    > Curious if you could elaborate? The vast majority of carbon credits issued are fraudulent: > Revealed: more than 90% of rainforest carbon offsets by biggest certifier are worthless, analysis shows https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/18/revealed-forest-carbon-offsets-biggest-provider-worthless-verra-aoe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/18/revealed... > A Shell-operated plant reported millions of carbon credits tied to CO₂ removal that never took place but were used by Canada’s largest oil sands companies https://archive.is/xH4NE https://archive.is/xH4NE https://www.ft.com/content/93938a1b-dc36-4ea6-9308-170189be0cb0 https://www.ft.com/content/93938a1b-dc36-4ea6-9308-170189be0...
ElevenLathe 2y ago
I think this is probably a riff on something that happens in /Venomous Lumpsucker/ by Ned Beauman. I won't give it away but do highly recommend the book.
ucarion 2y ago
For anyone curious about the real critique of utilitarianism behind the joke, it's called a utility monster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster
eternauta3k 2y ago
Why do you actually need to simulate them? The mapping between the state of the computer and the simulated state it represents exists only in our heads. You might as well say that any reality you can vaguely conceive of, exists and has moral weight.
- glenstein 2y ago
  Depending on which article you look at, you can see things such as the stunning, vivid rotating 3D model showing the optic lobes, or elaborations on what the model captures: it has mapped 139,000 neurons and 130 million synapses. I don't think that quietly picturing a fruit fly in your head executes a true simulation of those details. I do think, in some cases, there is such a thing as thinking being equivalent to simulating (e.g. a calculator) but this isn't one of those.

ash1794 2y ago

Why!

neverrroot 2y ago
Feel good, bragging rights, entitlement
rtkwe 2y ago
It's a joke about utilitarianism which has had it's ups and downs but is a philosophy that has some pretty powerful adherents in the tech CEO world, notably the whole effective altruist crowd that SBF came out of. There's the Parable of Felix from SMBC [0] coming at it from the other angle of one incredibly happy person skewing the utility equation to do awful things. [0] https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120403.gif https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120403.gif

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

They have a branding opportunity. Karma Kredits Perhaps a co-branding opportunity with Krispy Kreme donuts? Buy a donut, and experience some Joy, which handily comes with Karma Kredits to offset that Joy. Have some KK with the KK!

birracerveza 2y ago
And those who have a lot of Karma Kredits can enter the exclusive Karma Kredits Klub!
- rtkwe 2y ago
  "We apologize for any negative connotations brought forward by our unfortunate naming of the Karma Kredits Klub and their ceremonial white peaked hats. As compensation we will simulate 50,000 more orgasmic fruit flies. Thank you we will not be taking questions."
bookofjoe 2y ago
https://kk.org/ https://kk.org/
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Wash away the guilt of one-too-many Krispy Kreme with some Karma Kredits.

neverrroot 2y ago

About as useful as the carbon credits themselves

bumby 2y ago
Curious if you could elaborate? It seems like the issue isn’t carbon credits, but the lack of a regulated level of carbon that would make them effective. Market incentives work best with dollar incentives, not virtue points.
- fennecfoxy 2y ago
  Carbon credits are useless for the same reason that non-proportional fines are also useless; for the incredibly wealthy the cost of speeding is the cost of the ticket. Some nations do a proportional speeding fine based on income - but that still doesn't affect the 1-0.1% whose wealth is more asset than income based.
  - bumby 2y ago
    That was effectively my point. There aren't appropriate dollar incentives to make the "market solution" work. It's really just a feel-good or virtue-signaling apparatus, not a financial market solution.
    - fennecfoxy 2y ago
      Yeah, not trying to steal your thunder, but adding to it. :)
- dns_snek 2y ago
  > Curious if you could elaborate? The vast majority of carbon credits issued are fraudulent: > Revealed: more than 90% of rainforest carbon offsets by biggest certifier are worthless, analysis shows https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/18/revealed-forest-carbon-offsets-biggest-provider-worthless-verra-aoe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/18/revealed... > A Shell-operated plant reported millions of carbon credits tied to CO₂ removal that never took place but were used by Canada’s largest oil sands companies https://archive.is/xH4NE https://archive.is/xH4NE https://www.ft.com/content/93938a1b-dc36-4ea6-9308-170189be0cb0 https://www.ft.com/content/93938a1b-dc36-4ea6-9308-170189be0...

ElevenLathe 2y ago

I think this is probably a riff on something that happens in /Venomous Lumpsucker/ by Ned Beauman. I won't give it away but do highly recommend the book.

ucarion 2y ago

For anyone curious about the real critique of utilitarianism behind the joke, it's called a utility monster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster

eternauta3k 2y ago

Why do you actually need to simulate them? The mapping between the state of the computer and the simulated state it represents exists only in our heads. You might as well say that any reality you can vaguely conceive of, exists and has moral weight.

glenstein 2y ago
Depending on which article you look at, you can see things such as the stunning, vivid rotating 3D model showing the optic lobes, or elaborations on what the model captures: it has mapped 139,000 neurons and 130 million synapses. I don't think that quietly picturing a fruit fly in your head executes a true simulation of those details. I do think, in some cases, there is such a thing as thinking being equivalent to simulating (e.g. a calculator) but this isn't one of those.