6 ms·
Chocolat 1.0 Released
- techx2501 14y agoI don't understand. But then again, I've havent used a Mac recently. Does this do something that Eclipse can't?
- drudge 14y agoYou mean other than function well and not eat RAM?
- earl 14y agoEclipse is one of the best java editing environments though, in terms of understanding java and not just editing text. Yes it's fidgety and ram hungry, but using it is a significant improvement over vim etc strictly in terms of my productivity. Though it may only really demonstrate value on larger apis; if you can keep most of an api in your head, ie it's a very small java project using few external libs, it may not do much for you. And I just bought 16GB of ram for my macbook for $150; it's from crucial which I've had good experiences with but it's as expensive as it gets for 2x8GB. So that's a pretty trivial expense for your development environment: $75 a year.
- dekz 14y agoYou and the OP are comparing apples and oranges. VIM is an editor, Eclipse is an IDE. You can have your cake and eat it too [1]. Eclipse is a good cross platform IDE yes, but throwing more RAM at it won't make it feel natural and native to the platform. [1]: http://eclim.org/
- fareesh 14y agoIs there some sort of secret to getting Eclipse to work without being really slow? Someone once mentioned using the latest Java, but I've yet to give that a try. Frankly it's the only thing that demotivates me from writing Android apps.
- TylerE 14y agoThrow LOTS of RAM at it. 8gb seems to be a good starting point.
- mgkimsal 14y agoI've got 16g with a 256gig SSD and it's still slow.
- batista 14y agoI use to run Eclipse 3 in a 1GB G4 2003 iBook (I now have an 4GB i7), so don't tell me "it's slow" with a modern CPU, 16G and SSD.
- mgkimsal 14y agoWhether something 'runs' vs whether it's 'slow' are entirely different matters. Eclipse still hangs and stutters while using it with generally nothing else of substance running on the machine. It's better under linux than osx, but it's still there. Intellij has far fewer of these hangs/pauses, although it has some too. Looking fwd to java 1.7 to help reduce these issues.
- frou_dh 14y agoApps considered good Mac apps typically use native GUI or polished custom GUIs that fit the aesthetic and conventions. Multi-platform stuff like Eclipse and MonoDevelop are slapdash in that department.
- rayiner 14y agoNot suck up 3-4% of your CPU just sitting there, preventing the CPU in your laptop from sleeping and wasting battery life.
- billpixby 14y ago$10 more bucks gets you Sublime Text 2 :)
- freditup 14y agoIf I was using a Mac, this would seem to have the same features as Sublime and more. Not sure though, haven't tried this one out obviously.
- balac 14y agodon't underestimate the awesome ST2 community extensions: http://wbond.net/sublime_packages/community http://wbond.net/sublime_packages/community
- shadesandcolour 14y agoChocolat is supposed to be able to load in bundles and themes from TextMate. I'm not sure if this is implemented fully yet but I know that it's an option.
- jsavimbi 14y agoThat's an option and it works even better than the bundles do with TextMate. Just goto Action > Install Extras and you'll see bundles and themes. Once I figure out this split-pane thingy I'll pony up my $49.
- shadesandcolour 14y agoSplit panes are actually beautifully easy. You just select both files that you want in the sidebar (command-I) and they show up. To change the individual file you can click on the name in the bottom of the window. The bigger find for me was holding option and clicking to get multi-cursor editing. Can't wait until a manual is published to see what else I missed.
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- michaelmartin 14y agoI've swapped to Chocolat as my full time text editor. I find it to be a really good cross between a plain+powerful text editor like Vim, but still with some of the pleasant UI touches of Espresso and such. Its speed of development is great as well. It seems to get updates every week or two in the past few months. Compared to Textmate/Espresso/Coda etc, that's a real breath of fresh air. That said, I haven't used Sublime 2 yet, and it seems to aim for similar goals, so no calls on which is best. PS - You have to like the release notes: "Feature – Major improvements to the version number. "
- earl 14y agoCould you say more about what you specifically find to be better than vim? thank you.
- michaelmartin 14y agoSure thing. It's probably easiest to explain by comparing it with the other options. You could say that Vim is one end of a scale (Hardcore keyboard power usage), and Coda/Espresso are on the other (Very designed, and try to do pretty much everything). I really like Chocolat because it's a sweet spot in the middle for me. I get a beautifully clean experience like in Vim, along with plenty of useful keyboard shortcuts, but still a pleasant UI, regular cursor, and convenience features like a file browser, highlighting recurrences of a word, quick jump into my recent projects etc. It's not that it does one particular thing that other editors don't (Feature-wise, I can't think of anything that only Chocolat does). Instead, it's the combination of what it does and doesn't do that I like.
- godDLL 14y agoVico is heading somewhere in that general direction. What do you have to say about that editor?
- michaelmartin 14y agoVico sounds good, but in the demo screenshots at least, there's just too much going on for me. Not major differences, but Chocolat seems to get by great without the toolbars along the top, and each screenshot for Vico has too much happening (Split editing, symbol browser etc.). It may be possible to tweak Vico to work in exactly such a way, but even the choice of screenshots, yellow background etc. shows the developer's personal taste. I want the editor to be as minimal as possible, without being quite as extreme as Vim. It's nice to find an editor which seems to have the same goal, and then sit back and let that developer work out the best way of achieving it. Also, there hasn't been a tweet from Vico since March sadly. The active development speed does make it a bit more fun to be using Chocolat. Even if they aren't big updates, it's just nice to know things are happening :)
- mariusandra 14y agoThere are 14 competing text editors. I know, I'll make the best one and end this dispute once and for all! There are 15 competing text editors.
- crazygringo 14y agoText editors are not standards, like sockets or protocols. They're programs. The more competition, the better!
- koenigdavidmj 14y agoYet another editor with a half-baked Vim mode!
- zhuzhuor 14y agocross-platform wins everything
- hbhanu 14y agoI don't know if it wins -everything-, but one purchase working on all my OSes? That's pretty awesome. And with the prices so close, I really can't justify buying Chocolat over ST2. :/
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- comex 14y agoI'm very reluctant to consider any editor that's not scriptable. Or if it is, it doesn't seem to be mentioned on the website...
- Derbasti 14y agoAnd not cross platform. Open Source would be nice, too, but I would not consider it a strict requirement.
- ajacksified 14y agoNeat, but, why not vim, which does all of these things? What differentiates it and justifies $50?
- Me1000 14y agoBelieve it or not, a _lot_ of people don't like vim.
- kintamanimatt 14y agoSacrilege! Burn the heathen!
- thom 14y agoI don't like vim, but I'd still use it before spending $50 on a text editor that did less.
- Me1000 14y agoPeople are willing to spend a lot of money on a text editor, feature set is really not as important as one might think... What's important is that the editor feels good when I use it.
- thom 14y agoSure, but the primary thing that should make someone feel good about their text editor is how efficiently they can manipulate text.
- wonderzombie 14y agoI haven't used Chocolat, but I did use Vim for ~10 years and switched to ST2 some months ago. Still, both ST2 and Chocolat ship with a bunch of commonly used features without having to install and configure N plugins by hand. Three things: 1. I'm supporting an independent developer. I want to live in a world where someone can make money off of writing great software, especially something I use day in and day out. 2. I amortize the cost ($60 for ST2) across all the time I spend coding. That's a small amount of money in the end, especially if I feel my overall quality of life has improved. 3. The time spent configuring, tweaking, and troubleshooting Vim configs and plugins is time spent not doing work. This made sense to me when I used to value my time at $0. Now that I want to spend less time tweaking and more time working, though, time is all the more precious and it's zero sum. Now, I am willing to spend some time configuring my tools, but these days I am much more receptive to something that ships with a bevy of useful features where configuration is mostly optional, as opposed to necessary. YMMV, etc.
- dedene 14y agoIs there something like the Zen Coding as in Sublime Text 2 possible with Chocolat?
- calinet6 14y agoUnfortunately, the new standard in text editors has been set... Chocolat, put up a direct comparison with Sublime Text 2, and tell me what you do better, and what you do worse. Be honest. Then and only then might I consider even trying your software. Just the harsh reality of the current market.
- pruman 14y agoI tried Sublime Text 2, loaded up a 150mb log file. It took over one minute to load, then crashed a few seconds later. I uninstalled it and am keeping Notepad++ and donating money to it.
- ique 14y agoI have personally never (thankfully) had to edit a log file larger then perhaps 10mb.. May I ask what you do if you open those kinds of files so often that you let that be the deciding factor in choosing editor?
- mariusandra 14y agolog files like that are opened with cat and grep on the console.
- calinet6 14y agoReally? I'm honestly surprised. One of the things I love about Sublime 2 is how it handles large files. I just ran `cat /dev/urandom > test.log` for about 15 seconds to generate a 160MB file, and it's currently opening in the background with a nice smooth status bar in Sublime, using up a single yielding thread while remaining completely and entirely UI responsive while loading. You can cancel loading at any time by closing the file; this doesn't interrupt workflow or slow you down at all if you accidentally open a massive file (awesome). It finished opening the entire 1.1 million (!) line file in about 2 minutes, followed by a brief 3 second delay, followed by displaying it perfectly in the editor. I could smoothly scroll through the whole file (as smooth as if it were 100 lines), even using the minimap that displays a small representation of the whole file. Memory usage jumped about 200 MB, but that's to be expected and is rather efficient considering the task. I'm not a Sublime evangelist or anything, just saying my experience completely contradicts yours, to such a degree that I think of Sublime second when I want to open large files. Why second? Well, because you should really be using command line tools for files that big anyway. *edit: Almost forgot to delete that test file. Whew.
- Karunamon 14y agoStill doesn't handle YAML completely right. Try nesting quotes and using newlines within a single key- the highlighting gets completely confused. Then try the same thing in BBEdit/Textwrangler to see the difference: Chocolat: http://c.tkwa.re/2G1O2x3T2f1F1Y0I2G1t http://c.tkwa.re/2G1O2x3T2f1F1Y0I2G1t TextWrangler: http://c.tkwa.re/3w1V1V2g0I0H0C2t422t http://c.tkwa.re/3w1V1V2g0I0H0C2t422t
- frou_dh 14y agoThis touches on something that bugs me about all the commercial editors using TextMate-compatible bundles for language support: It's not clear who, if anyone, is maintaining the bundle for a specific language. I doubt the developer of editor XYZ commits to actively maintaining the 2 dozen language bundles they distribute with their editor. So support for language X might forever be that Last-updated-4-years-ago zip file that perhaps wasn't even the definitive version when it was found, especially for the less community-orientated languages.
- zem 14y agobut if someone writes a better textmate bundle, all the editors can now use it! it's not like vim and emacs support all the languages themselves either.
- icefox 14y agoCan we have the title changed to: Chocolate, a text editor for Mac 1.0 released
- yottabyte47 14y agoErm. So. It's name is "Chocolat".
- Samuel_Michon 14y agoIts vs. it’s: http://www.betteratenglish.com/grammar-mistakes-that-make-you-look-like-a-dork-its-vs-its/ http://www.betteratenglish.com/grammar-mistakes-that-make-yo... Also see McKean's law: “Any correction of the speech or writing of others will contain at least one grammatical, spelling, or typographical error.”
- sbuk 14y agoA grammatical error does not change the fact that the OP hadn't registered that the product's name is “Chocolat” and not “Chocolate”.
- yottabyte47 14y agohangs head in shame
- richbradshaw 14y agoI guess they assumed most people would know what it is. To be honest, everything you've never heard of is likely a text editor for OSX, there seems to be an unusually huge number of them!
- bigdubs 14y agosublime text 2 was not the intended comp; textmate was (hence the compatibility with tmbundles etc.) i use chocolat and enjoy it (have been using it since it's early open beta). the intellisense (or whatever you want to call it) feature is nicely implemented. the vim mode, though shallow, works if you're used to those key bindings for basic movement and editing etc. i like it, overall. do i like it enough to pay $50 for it? probably not.
- kylec 14y agoI've been using the Chocolat betas for a while and it really is a nice editor. Worth $50, I don't know - for around that price you can get Sublime Text 2, BBEdit, or TextMate, all of which are more mature products. I think Chocolat could be wildly successful as the "Pixelmator" to these other editors "Photoshop" if they dropped the price and sold it through the Mac App Store. But as it stands now, there's nothing that compells me to purchase it.
- adamjernst 14y ago$50 is equal to about 20 minutes-60 minutes of your time. Chocolat has easily saved me that much frustration and time. So it's worth it for me.
- throwaway54-762 14y agoVim has saved me that much frustration and time. Maybe I should donate $50 to that Ugandan charity (ICCF?) that Moolenaar likes.
- shawndumas 14y agohttp://www.moolenaar.net/Charityware.html http://www.moolenaar.net/Charityware.html
- billpatrianakos 14y agoMaybe you should. The creator of Chocolat is in a position where he obviously has to charge to help him survive. Just because another piece of software that's equally or more powerful than Chocolat is free doesn't mean that Chocolat should be too. I've been using Chocolat since the very first public beta and I loved it even when it was filled to the brim with bugs. I've also used SublimeText2 in that time. I can say that for me Chocolat is worth the $50. No, I can't afford it right now so I keep using an unlicensed SublimeText but just because I can't afford it doesn't mean it isn't worth it.
- avolcano 14y agoNot to pick on you in particular, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to try to say "something is priced to be worth about X amount of time" - it entirely depends on the person and their financial situation. I've used Sublime Text 2 for a year without actually buying it, but I've also been unemployed college student for the same amount of time, so I can't justify dropping $60 on something optional when I could be stocking up on ramen or paying rent.
- pdeuchler 14y agoXKCD is always relevant: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/ I am, actually, a Chocolat user. I'm essentially using it as a TextMate2 replacement... comes with all the niceties of TM truffles and it's easy on the eyes. Does what I need it to do well, nothing more, nothing less.
- raimondious 14y agoThe app crashed the first time I opened it. The second time, I opened a file and the Python syntax mode marked lines in my file as invalid, even though they aren't and no other text editor marks them as such. It seems premature for a 1.0 release.
- septerr 14y agowhat languages does it support?
- Derbasti 14y agoTwo questions: 1. Is it scriptable? 2. Does it have macros? These are honest questions. The website did not mention anything at first glance. But without those, I would not consider it a serious text editor. On the other hand, it not being cross platform makes it pretty much unusable for me.
- cybersunil 14y agoCongrats on the 1.0 release. I have been following Chocolat's progress since a few months now and am impressed with how well it has improved.
- EternalFury 14y agoFor real? $49? You have all that and so much more in jEdit for $0.
- jamie_ca 14y agoThe single feature I long for that I've never seen in any other editor is the tree view of open buffers. It's 100% outstanding. Alas, it's not enough to make me stick with it.