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Your response to this complaint is going to look very interesting. Also, a note for the audience: Quinn Emanuel is one of the premier (and most expensive) liti

Your response to this complaint is going to look very interesting. Also, a note for the audience: Quinn Emanuel is one of the premier (and most expensive) litigation firms in the US. Partners in their litigation department run $2000/hour or more. Associates cost almost $1000/hour. WPEngine apparently has deep pockets.

photomatt 2y ago
Just wait!
- mplewis 2y ago
  Hi Matt. I wanted to ask, do you think that the actions you've taken will improve the WordPress community in the long term? What do you think are the likely outcomes for WordPress users and contributors, regardless of how this conflict ends?
- dataspun 2y ago
  I’m with you Matt! I like your strategy here.
  - pjob 2y ago
    I was curious about your defense of Matt's behavior in this thread but your empathy makes sense given that you work on a similar project that you describe as: > A static site that is 100% free and open-source, competing with several businesses operating scammy subscription models. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30295629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30295629 Is this a competitor to Wordpress? Can you elaborate more about how the competition in this space uses scammy subscription models? It might help to illustrate the issues in the industry for outsiders like me. Off topic, but I'm a bit of an amateur musician myself. I try to check out other musicians that I encounter, but I wasn't able to find anything about you or your music online. Do you have a bandcamp or something similar? The contrabass trombone is a really interesting instrument.
    - dataspun 2y ago
      Semi-pro, friendo. I don't do the socials. Wish I played a more sought-after instrument though. You surely know that scammy subscription models are rife in every space. That's why open-source champions like Matt are an inspiration. But nobody's perfect, so have a little grace.
chx 2y ago
Not only that but the team is lead by Rachel Kassabian. As I noted elsewhere in the thread, she was lead counsel for Google which in Perfect 10 v Amazon (originally it was against Google) resulted in thumbnail of copyright images in search results being fair use.
shabgzer 2y ago
That $1000+/hr apparently does not guarantee great proofreading. Already found two typos and am not even a quarter of the way through: - Page 12: "wordrpess.org" - Page 17: "fundamental principal"
- crummy 2y ago
  that's how you can tell they didn't get chatGPT to write it
  - blitzar 2y ago
    You always add a few mistakes when you copy someone elese homework - no different with copying from chatGPT.
- ec109685 2y ago
  At least we know a human wrote it :)
- cdolan 2y ago
  I used to care about this stuff and thought it meant my opponent was weak Then you learn its not important and in fact its likely a red herring to make the defense think the plaintiff is careless
  - shabgzer 2y ago
    > I used to care about this stuff and thought it meant my opponent was weak Me too, I'm no longer the grammar nazi I used to be. It still comes across as sloppy though. > likely a red herring to make the defense think the plaintiff is careless That's interesting!
    - neltnerb 2y ago
      As I write many more things collaborating with people who do not speak English as a first language, it is more obvious than ever that grammar and spelling errors have absolutely no correlation with the quality of the argument when it comes to professional communication. At some level sure, but if a lawyer is typing a 30 page document in a few hours, they might have someone proofread it once but I guarantee you the thought that went into writing it was far more serious than the thought that went into proofreading it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
biccboii 2y ago
> WPEngine apparently has deep pockets. Yeah because they don't have to spend any money on R&D nor do they spend money contributing to the open source project :)
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  It is eternally surprising to me how much "hosted X" businesses can make. There are a lot of non-technical people ready to overspend by 10x just to have someone else be "responsible" for downtime.
  - Loudergood 2y ago
    Just look at Microsoft 365 and to lesser extent AWS.
  - ecshafer 2y ago
    DHH was talking about this in his recent rails world keynote. Hosting companies are getting huge margins because developers are afraid of using a computer.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    I do this all day long to avoid being the person in the hot seat when something breaks… when it’s someone else’s money, and when the org’s dysfunctional or political enough for there to be a “hot seat” (nearly all large and medium orgs, at least half of small orgs). It’s kinda comical because it’s absolutely a principal-agent problem disguised as being in the best interest of the company. 10x costs and in practice worse uptime & performance for internal-political insurance and on-call avoidance for me personally, sold with a list of benefits that the company either doesn’t need, or that only look like benefits due to very-partial accounting, or that have such lengthy footnoted caveats that no, they probably won’t be a benefit in-fact.

photomatt 2y ago

Just wait!

mplewis 2y ago
Hi Matt. I wanted to ask, do you think that the actions you've taken will improve the WordPress community in the long term? What do you think are the likely outcomes for WordPress users and contributors, regardless of how this conflict ends?
dataspun 2y ago
I’m with you Matt! I like your strategy here.
- pjob 2y ago
  I was curious about your defense of Matt's behavior in this thread but your empathy makes sense given that you work on a similar project that you describe as: > A static site that is 100% free and open-source, competing with several businesses operating scammy subscription models. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30295629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30295629 Is this a competitor to Wordpress? Can you elaborate more about how the competition in this space uses scammy subscription models? It might help to illustrate the issues in the industry for outsiders like me. Off topic, but I'm a bit of an amateur musician myself. I try to check out other musicians that I encounter, but I wasn't able to find anything about you or your music online. Do you have a bandcamp or something similar? The contrabass trombone is a really interesting instrument.
  - dataspun 2y ago
    Semi-pro, friendo. I don't do the socials. Wish I played a more sought-after instrument though. You surely know that scammy subscription models are rife in every space. That's why open-source champions like Matt are an inspiration. But nobody's perfect, so have a little grace.

chx 2y ago

Not only that but the team is lead by Rachel Kassabian. As I noted elsewhere in the thread, she was lead counsel for Google which in Perfect 10 v Amazon (originally it was against Google) resulted in thumbnail of copyright images in search results being fair use.

shabgzer 2y ago

That $1000+/hr apparently does not guarantee great proofreading. Already found two typos and am not even a quarter of the way through: - Page 12: "wordrpess.org" - Page 17: "fundamental principal"

crummy 2y ago
that's how you can tell they didn't get chatGPT to write it
- blitzar 2y ago
  You always add a few mistakes when you copy someone elese homework - no different with copying from chatGPT.
ec109685 2y ago
At least we know a human wrote it :)
cdolan 2y ago
I used to care about this stuff and thought it meant my opponent was weak Then you learn its not important and in fact its likely a red herring to make the defense think the plaintiff is careless
- shabgzer 2y ago
  > I used to care about this stuff and thought it meant my opponent was weak Me too, I'm no longer the grammar nazi I used to be. It still comes across as sloppy though. > likely a red herring to make the defense think the plaintiff is careless That's interesting!
  - neltnerb 2y ago
    As I write many more things collaborating with people who do not speak English as a first language, it is more obvious than ever that grammar and spelling errors have absolutely no correlation with the quality of the argument when it comes to professional communication. At some level sure, but if a lawyer is typing a 30 page document in a few hours, they might have someone proofread it once but I guarantee you the thought that went into writing it was far more serious than the thought that went into proofreading it.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

biccboii 2y ago

> WPEngine apparently has deep pockets. Yeah because they don't have to spend any money on R&D nor do they spend money contributing to the open source project :)

pclmulqdq 2y ago
It is eternally surprising to me how much "hosted X" businesses can make. There are a lot of non-technical people ready to overspend by 10x just to have someone else be "responsible" for downtime.
- Loudergood 2y ago
  Just look at Microsoft 365 and to lesser extent AWS.
- ecshafer 2y ago
  DHH was talking about this in his recent rails world keynote. Hosting companies are getting huge margins because developers are afraid of using a computer.
- vundercind 2y ago
  I do this all day long to avoid being the person in the hot seat when something breaks… when it’s someone else’s money, and when the org’s dysfunctional or political enough for there to be a “hot seat” (nearly all large and medium orgs, at least half of small orgs). It’s kinda comical because it’s absolutely a principal-agent problem disguised as being in the best interest of the company. 10x costs and in practice worse uptime & performance for internal-political insurance and on-call avoidance for me personally, sold with a list of benefits that the company either doesn’t need, or that only look like benefits due to very-partial accounting, or that have such lengthy footnoted caveats that no, they probably won’t be a benefit in-fact.