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> A plant creeping toward sunlight isn't aware of the sunlight. Why not? Because the plant isn't conscious? Awareness can't be defined in terms of consciousnes

by bccdee 2y ago

> A plant creeping toward sunlight isn't aware of the sunlight. Why not? Because the plant isn't conscious? Awareness can't be defined in terms of consciousness if consciousness itself is defined in terms of awareness—that's circular. How do you define awareness? >> I'm not sure what you consider the difference to be > Self-awareness. Yeah but what is that? That's my big stumbling block here—what is "awareness"? What distinguishes things that are aware from things that are not?

ruthmarx 2y ago
> Why not? Because the plant isn't conscious? Awareness can't be defined in terms of consciousness if consciousness itself is defined in terms of awareness—that's circular. The problem is we are using the same word to mean different things - all these words are terribly overloaded. > Awareness, in philosophy and psychology, is a perception or knowledge of something.[1] The concept is often synonymous to consciousness.[2] However, one can be aware of something without being explicitly conscious of it, such as in the case of blindsight. This is what the wiki says: Awareness, in philosophy and psychology, is a perception or knowledge of something. The concept is often synonymous to consciousness. However, one can be aware of something without being explicitly conscious of it, such as in the case of blindsight. For sentience: Sentience is the ability to experience feelings and sensations. It may not necessarily imply higher cognitive functions such as awareness, reasoning, or complex thought processes. So the way I see it, you have 'bodily self-awareness'/sentience, which is basically the minimal amount of some kind of mental OS running. processing stimuli, making decisions and reacting to events. These simple beings, like worms, are conscious in the sense they are aware/awake, but they do not have a higher level consciousness, or I would argue any consciousness at all. On top of that you can have base consciousness, which allows for simple wants and needs, some basic decision making, but there is no inner monologue, no awareness of ones own thoughts. Consider something like a fish to be at this level. On top of that you now have higher consciousness and self-awareness. A sense of ones selves as distinct from heir environment. A recognition of the fact that you had a thought and can now have thoughts about that thought. This is largely what separates humans from other animals, with only a few animals being close to humans in this regard (crows, elephants, chimps, dolphins, etc). So the plant, as far as we know, has no kind of 'mental OS' running, so it has no type of awareness. It's just base chemical reactions without that, likely because they never evolved the need for it. The camera as well doesn't have any equivalent. It's a set of actions that happen when a button is pressed. A roomba could be said to have a level of awareness though. > Yeah but what is that? That's my big stumbling block here—what is "awareness"? What distinguishes things that are aware from things that are not? Hopefully I've clarified this above.

by bccdee 2y ago

ruthmarx 2y ago

> Why not? Because the plant isn't conscious? Awareness can't be defined in terms of consciousness if consciousness itself is defined in terms of awareness—that's circular. The problem is we are using the same word to mean different things - all these words are terribly overloaded. > Awareness, in philosophy and psychology, is a perception or knowledge of something.[1] The concept is often synonymous to consciousness.[2] However, one can be aware of something without being explicitly conscious of it, such as in the case of blindsight. This is what the wiki says: Awareness, in philosophy and psychology, is a perception or knowledge of something. The concept is often synonymous to consciousness. However, one can be aware of something without being explicitly conscious of it, such as in the case of blindsight. For sentience: Sentience is the ability to experience feelings and sensations. It may not necessarily imply higher cognitive functions such as awareness, reasoning, or complex thought processes. So the way I see it, you have 'bodily self-awareness'/sentience, which is basically the minimal amount of some kind of mental OS running. processing stimuli, making decisions and reacting to events. These simple beings, like worms, are conscious in the sense they are aware/awake, but they do not have a higher level consciousness, or I would argue any consciousness at all. On top of that you can have base consciousness, which allows for simple wants and needs, some basic decision making, but there is no inner monologue, no awareness of ones own thoughts. Consider something like a fish to be at this level. On top of that you now have higher consciousness and self-awareness. A sense of ones selves as distinct from heir environment. A recognition of the fact that you had a thought and can now have thoughts about that thought. This is largely what separates humans from other animals, with only a few animals being close to humans in this regard (crows, elephants, chimps, dolphins, etc). So the plant, as far as we know, has no kind of 'mental OS' running, so it has no type of awareness. It's just base chemical reactions without that, likely because they never evolved the need for it. The camera as well doesn't have any equivalent. It's a set of actions that happen when a button is pressed. A roomba could be said to have a level of awareness though. > Yeah but what is that? That's my big stumbling block here—what is "awareness"? What distinguishes things that are aware from things that are not? Hopefully I've clarified this above.