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> You now just introduced an entirely worthless layer that was wants to extract money. a little simplistic minded to think that government doesn't invariably t

> You now just introduced an entirely worthless layer that was wants to extract money. a little simplistic minded to think that government doesn't invariably tend towards rent-seeking and unchecked growth?

azemetre 2y ago
I can elect members of the government or campaign against them to change the system, democracy is liberating and freeing in that manner. Can't do much about a private enterprise without hundreds of millions in capital. I do see why the elite corpo class favors one over the other.
- lurking15 2y ago
  > Can't do much about a private enterprise without hundreds of millions in capital they all die generally in less than a generation, governments on the other end have the force of law and can demagogue their electorate and generally outlive any citizen never mind that, economic forces act on businesses, you can talk about monopolies all you want there's still enormous incentive and instability for competitors to rise up and get a slice of their action
  - azemetre 2y ago
    Hoping that things get better after my death is such a sad view of the world. People can enact change and make a better society together NOW, that's what democracy enables that's why it's worth fighting for democratic ideals. Extremely rich individuals that think they know better than citizens is not a reality I want to usher in, nor is it democratic to allow private enterprise taking more control of a citizens life.
    - lurking15 2y ago
      > that's what democracy enables I'm curious how much actual theory you've read about democracy, democracy is generally a gloss controlled by the elite to legitimize their own corruption and rule. The closest you'll get to an endorsement is Churchill's "it's the worst aside from all the others" comment.
      - azemetre 2y ago
        My actual theory is my lived experience in attending local council meetings, being part of local political groups to enforce change, and advocating/canvassing on the ground to help people I support get more voters voting for them. These are all things that anyone can do without spending a single penny while creating a tremendous amount of positive change in their local communities. I have relatives that were able to advocate and provide better jobs to hundreds of families through union activism. I have personally pressured local governments to pay for cleanup projects and install sidewalks and open parks. Right now every other day I phone bank convincing likely voters on not just who they should vote for President but why their vote matters and why it's sacred. What is your lived experience of democracy? Have you attended union meetings? Have you started political groups to advocate for change? Have you ever knocked on doors before and talked to voters about your preferred candidate? Have you driven groups of voters to the polls? Have you attended protests? Have you served on a jury? Society is shaped by people who show up and if you don't show up you won't have a say. My entire political theory of democracy is increasing voting rights and civil rights and workers rights. These are the three pillars of change that have been consistently proven to do more good in the world than some ketamine addicted billionaire that thinks they have some sort of divine monetary right derives their thoughts and ideas more valid than your local school teacher. We've tried feudalism and aristocracy in the past, I don't want to go back to that time. That would betray our ancestors who fought, died, advocated, and taught us why democracy is worth pursuing, dying for, and spreading. The idea that anyone with money is more worthy than their fellow citizen is a thought that fills me with complete disgust, and I hope it does for you too.
        lurking15 2y ago
        Ok so I'm talking with the wrong person and this conversation isn't useful and I won't change your mind. You're admittedly a die-hard progressive and democracy is less of a rational concept and more of a partisan religion to you.
        azemetre 2y ago
        You don't find it sad that you would rather theory craft about democracy rather than participating in it? If having the desire for oneself to spread democracy makes me partisan than I guess I'm lucky to live in a country where these partisans actually have power.

azemetre 2y ago

I can elect members of the government or campaign against them to change the system, democracy is liberating and freeing in that manner. Can't do much about a private enterprise without hundreds of millions in capital. I do see why the elite corpo class favors one over the other.

lurking15 2y ago
> Can't do much about a private enterprise without hundreds of millions in capital they all die generally in less than a generation, governments on the other end have the force of law and can demagogue their electorate and generally outlive any citizen never mind that, economic forces act on businesses, you can talk about monopolies all you want there's still enormous incentive and instability for competitors to rise up and get a slice of their action
- azemetre 2y ago
  Hoping that things get better after my death is such a sad view of the world. People can enact change and make a better society together NOW, that's what democracy enables that's why it's worth fighting for democratic ideals. Extremely rich individuals that think they know better than citizens is not a reality I want to usher in, nor is it democratic to allow private enterprise taking more control of a citizens life.
  - lurking15 2y ago
    > that's what democracy enables I'm curious how much actual theory you've read about democracy, democracy is generally a gloss controlled by the elite to legitimize their own corruption and rule. The closest you'll get to an endorsement is Churchill's "it's the worst aside from all the others" comment.
    - azemetre 2y ago
      My actual theory is my lived experience in attending local council meetings, being part of local political groups to enforce change, and advocating/canvassing on the ground to help people I support get more voters voting for them. These are all things that anyone can do without spending a single penny while creating a tremendous amount of positive change in their local communities. I have relatives that were able to advocate and provide better jobs to hundreds of families through union activism. I have personally pressured local governments to pay for cleanup projects and install sidewalks and open parks. Right now every other day I phone bank convincing likely voters on not just who they should vote for President but why their vote matters and why it's sacred. What is your lived experience of democracy? Have you attended union meetings? Have you started political groups to advocate for change? Have you ever knocked on doors before and talked to voters about your preferred candidate? Have you driven groups of voters to the polls? Have you attended protests? Have you served on a jury? Society is shaped by people who show up and if you don't show up you won't have a say. My entire political theory of democracy is increasing voting rights and civil rights and workers rights. These are the three pillars of change that have been consistently proven to do more good in the world than some ketamine addicted billionaire that thinks they have some sort of divine monetary right derives their thoughts and ideas more valid than your local school teacher. We've tried feudalism and aristocracy in the past, I don't want to go back to that time. That would betray our ancestors who fought, died, advocated, and taught us why democracy is worth pursuing, dying for, and spreading. The idea that anyone with money is more worthy than their fellow citizen is a thought that fills me with complete disgust, and I hope it does for you too.
      - lurking15 2y ago
        Ok so I'm talking with the wrong person and this conversation isn't useful and I won't change your mind. You're admittedly a die-hard progressive and democracy is less of a rational concept and more of a partisan religion to you.
        azemetre 2y ago
        You don't find it sad that you would rather theory craft about democracy rather than participating in it? If having the desire for oneself to spread democracy makes me partisan than I guess I'm lucky to live in a country where these partisans actually have power.