3 ms·

> AI helps in some areas (e.g. assisting medical diagnoses) Uhhh, I don't know about that one. Have we seen studies that show real predictive capabilities? Ane

> AI helps in some areas (e.g. assisting medical diagnoses) Uhhh, I don't know about that one. Have we seen studies that show real predictive capabilities? Anecdotal evidence is not helpful, and it seems rather risky to depend on something that has not been thoroughly vetted when it comes to people's lives.

ziddoap 2y ago
>In 2020, Zhang’s team developed an AI imaging-assisted diagnosis system for COVID-19 pneumonia and published in Cell. Based on the 500,000 copies of CT images that the team studied, the system was able to distinguish COVID-19 from other viral pneumonias within 20 seconds, with an accuracy rate of more than 90%. https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-022-00035-y?error=cookies_not_supported&code=eadf6250-1e42-4c6a-8ca3-7dbfb9c2f109 https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-022-00035-y?error=coo... >AI improves the lives of patients, physicians, and hospital managers by doing activities usually performed by people but in a fraction of the time and the expense. [...] Not only that, AI assists physicians in detecting diseases by utilizing complicated algorithms, hundreds of biomarkers, imaging findings from millions of patients, aggregated published clinical studies, and thousands of physicians’ notes to improve the accuracy of diagnosis. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8754556/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8754556/
- rsynnott 2y ago
  I mean if I was given a COVID diagnosis or non-diagnosis based on the above, I'd be reporting the doctor, because it's far worse accuracy than generally available methods (even antigen methods)... Even if visual methods were the only means of diagnosing COVID (as was the case for the first few weeks after the virus emerged), sorry, but I'd be asking for an actual radiologist. Radiologists were able to do this with better accuracy. Really, the only way this could possibly be useful were in a hypothetical case where only visual methods were available and there weren't enough radiologists, and even then it wouldn't be _very_ useful, given the high failure rate. > Not only that, AI assists physicians in detecting diseases by utilizing complicated algorithms, hundreds of biomarkers, imaging findings from millions of patients, aggregated published clinical studies, and thousands of physicians’ notes to improve the accuracy of diagnosis. This sounds very fuzzy. Can you appoint to specific approved applications, or is this all hypothetical?
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    >Can you appoint to specific approved applications, or is this all hypothetical? One of those links is a systemic literature review of a bunch of other existing literature. If that is not enough for you, that is totally understandable! But if I'm honest here, I don't really care enough to go digging even further and trying to find additional studies or approved applications from your preferred country, with an ultimate goal of convincing you. I would be fine if my current doctor used AI to assist in their diagnosis of me. You don't have to be, it's completely your right to choose that.
JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
In diagnosis there is no prediction. The AI can find a pattern somewhere and that’s it. It’s actually very efficient in some fields (like recognizing stuff in a scanned body) but doctors always have the final say. It’s like a hint, and it should stay like that.

ziddoap 2y ago

>In 2020, Zhang’s team developed an AI imaging-assisted diagnosis system for COVID-19 pneumonia and published in Cell. Based on the 500,000 copies of CT images that the team studied, the system was able to distinguish COVID-19 from other viral pneumonias within 20 seconds, with an accuracy rate of more than 90%. https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-022-00035-y?error=cookies_not_supported&code=eadf6250-1e42-4c6a-8ca3-7dbfb9c2f109 https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-022-00035-y?error=coo... >AI improves the lives of patients, physicians, and hospital managers by doing activities usually performed by people but in a fraction of the time and the expense. [...] Not only that, AI assists physicians in detecting diseases by utilizing complicated algorithms, hundreds of biomarkers, imaging findings from millions of patients, aggregated published clinical studies, and thousands of physicians’ notes to improve the accuracy of diagnosis. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8754556/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8754556/

rsynnott 2y ago
I mean if I was given a COVID diagnosis or non-diagnosis based on the above, I'd be reporting the doctor, because it's far worse accuracy than generally available methods (even antigen methods)... Even if visual methods were the only means of diagnosing COVID (as was the case for the first few weeks after the virus emerged), sorry, but I'd be asking for an actual radiologist. Radiologists were able to do this with better accuracy. Really, the only way this could possibly be useful were in a hypothetical case where only visual methods were available and there weren't enough radiologists, and even then it wouldn't be _very_ useful, given the high failure rate. > Not only that, AI assists physicians in detecting diseases by utilizing complicated algorithms, hundreds of biomarkers, imaging findings from millions of patients, aggregated published clinical studies, and thousands of physicians’ notes to improve the accuracy of diagnosis. This sounds very fuzzy. Can you appoint to specific approved applications, or is this all hypothetical?
- ziddoap 2y ago
  >Can you appoint to specific approved applications, or is this all hypothetical? One of those links is a systemic literature review of a bunch of other existing literature. If that is not enough for you, that is totally understandable! But if I'm honest here, I don't really care enough to go digging even further and trying to find additional studies or approved applications from your preferred country, with an ultimate goal of convincing you. I would be fine if my current doctor used AI to assist in their diagnosis of me. You don't have to be, it's completely your right to choose that.

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago

In diagnosis there is no prediction. The AI can find a pattern somewhere and that’s it. It’s actually very efficient in some fields (like recognizing stuff in a scanned body) but doctors always have the final say. It’s like a hint, and it should stay like that.