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> 2 years from being able to retire with a pension > [..] > hoping to work there for another 20+ years to earn another pension I don't understand that... If he

> 2 years from being able to retire with a pension > [..] > hoping to work there for another 20+ years to earn another pension I don't understand that... If he was two years from retiring, then he only needed two more years of salaried employment somewhere lese - didn't he ? What country did he live in ?

MisterBastahrd 2y ago
The US. Your pension, if you get one, is tied to your employer. Most people have 401Ks.
- liotier 2y ago
  In a country that promotes social mobility, I don't understand how pensions tied to the employer subsist: it strongly discourages changing employers.
lotsofpulp 2y ago
In the US, pension is short for “defined benefit pension”, most often a provided by a single employer stipulating that you work at that employer for a minimum number of years, and the longer you work at one employer, the greater the benefit. They only exist at taxpayer funded employers or legacy businesses like oil and gas, but most everyone else has switched to defined contribution pensions, but those are referred to as “401k” or “401b” or some other letter for the appropriate section of the law that specifies the tax benefit of saving for retirement. The latter are better ever since low cost index funds came about, as you get to skip paying the DB pension administrators and remove agency risk.
- MisterBastahrd 2y ago
  Virtually all people who have worked and retired at oil and gas companies over the past 40 years had both a company pension AND a 401K. My dad has a paid off house and no bills other than utilities and taxes. He's pulling in over 80K a year in retirement, and he re-invests most of what he's being forced to pull out.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    But now people working for profitable businesses can do mega backdoor roth contributions and still invest in the same VOO equities that the pension fund manager would invest in, but cut out all of the agency risk and not be tied to their employer.
    - MisterBastahrd 2y ago
      Yes, but that's an insanely small minority of people. The average person in my hometown makes $70K a year with overtime and has a $320K house. They're not loading up IRAs. They don't have the money to spare.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        The people getting meaningful DB pensions and 401k are also an insanely small minority, hence them getting it in the oil and gas business, which has fat profit margins, like tech companies. My point is it’s better for the employee who is getting paid a lot (whether it be oil and gas or tech) to receive their compensation in fully liquid cash they can invest in a broad market index fund, rather than have it be held hostage (see agency risk). Plus the employee maintains more leverage to be able to sell their labor to other employers.

MisterBastahrd 2y ago

The US. Your pension, if you get one, is tied to your employer. Most people have 401Ks.

liotier 2y ago
In a country that promotes social mobility, I don't understand how pensions tied to the employer subsist: it strongly discourages changing employers.

lotsofpulp 2y ago

In the US, pension is short for “defined benefit pension”, most often a provided by a single employer stipulating that you work at that employer for a minimum number of years, and the longer you work at one employer, the greater the benefit. They only exist at taxpayer funded employers or legacy businesses like oil and gas, but most everyone else has switched to defined contribution pensions, but those are referred to as “401k” or “401b” or some other letter for the appropriate section of the law that specifies the tax benefit of saving for retirement. The latter are better ever since low cost index funds came about, as you get to skip paying the DB pension administrators and remove agency risk.

MisterBastahrd 2y ago
Virtually all people who have worked and retired at oil and gas companies over the past 40 years had both a company pension AND a 401K. My dad has a paid off house and no bills other than utilities and taxes. He's pulling in over 80K a year in retirement, and he re-invests most of what he's being forced to pull out.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  But now people working for profitable businesses can do mega backdoor roth contributions and still invest in the same VOO equities that the pension fund manager would invest in, but cut out all of the agency risk and not be tied to their employer.
  - MisterBastahrd 2y ago
    Yes, but that's an insanely small minority of people. The average person in my hometown makes $70K a year with overtime and has a $320K house. They're not loading up IRAs. They don't have the money to spare.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      The people getting meaningful DB pensions and 401k are also an insanely small minority, hence them getting it in the oil and gas business, which has fat profit margins, like tech companies. My point is it’s better for the employee who is getting paid a lot (whether it be oil and gas or tech) to receive their compensation in fully liquid cash they can invest in a broad market index fund, rather than have it be held hostage (see agency risk). Plus the employee maintains more leverage to be able to sell their labor to other employers.