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As a poor disabled citizen who also cares about privacy and freedom, I haven't heard a single idea for attestation that doesn't scare the shit out of me. But th

by squigz 2y ago

As a poor disabled citizen who also cares about privacy and freedom, I haven't heard a single idea for attestation that doesn't scare the shit out of me. But then, I'm a poor, disabled citizen, so my opinion doesn't hold much weight.

Terr_ 2y ago
Given that being summarily blocked from participation by paranoid site-operators is already a existing scary problem, what kind of fix would you suggest that adds the least additional scariness? Personally, I am particularly concerned with avoiding the scariness of a government agency that inherently knows all the websites all people are using.
- squigz 2y ago
  I would at least hope we'd consider whether more 'fixes' are actually worth it. It seems to me that 40 years of 'fixes' haven't done much to combat spam and the like, and has instead just made it harder for people like me to access and browse the Internet.
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    I'm trying to discern a positive proposal from that, and the best I can extract seems to be "stop fighting and just let the bad people operate unopposed", which doesn't seem workable to me. Security/anti-spam is probably not biggest accessibility factor in the last 40 years of change anyway: It's easier to make an alternate CAPTCHA route than to convince management a phone-app is unnecessary, or to correctly annotate everything with aria/alt-text properties in all the languages.
    - squigz 2y ago
      > I'm trying to discern a positive proposal from that, and the best I can extract seems to be "stop fighting and just let the bad people operate unopposed." That's not a very generous reading, I think. I am suggesting that the "bad people" seem to be doing fine, so at a certain point we might want to ask ourselves how far we take this "fight" in terms of sacrificing accessibility and privacy (to only name 2 concerns) to stop some percentage of bad actors. As someone who has been hurt by these efforts over the past 20+ years, and who has yet to hear a proposal for next steps that doesn't greatly worry me, I'm not going to be in favor of propositions just because "well we have to do something" > It may also be blaming the wrong factors and growing pains. It's easier to make an alternate CAPTCHA route than to convince management to not rely on a phone app or to correctly annotate everything with aria-properties in all the languages. We've had 20 years to make CAPTCHAs more accessible, yet they've gotten worse. Not to mention their efficacy being in question, hence the discussion about next steps (i.e., attestation)

by squigz 2y ago

Terr_ 2y ago

Given that being summarily blocked from participation by paranoid site-operators is already a existing scary problem, what kind of fix would you suggest that adds the least additional scariness? Personally, I am particularly concerned with avoiding the scariness of a government agency that inherently knows all the websites all people are using.

squigz 2y ago
I would at least hope we'd consider whether more 'fixes' are actually worth it. It seems to me that 40 years of 'fixes' haven't done much to combat spam and the like, and has instead just made it harder for people like me to access and browse the Internet.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  I'm trying to discern a positive proposal from that, and the best I can extract seems to be "stop fighting and just let the bad people operate unopposed", which doesn't seem workable to me. Security/anti-spam is probably not biggest accessibility factor in the last 40 years of change anyway: It's easier to make an alternate CAPTCHA route than to convince management a phone-app is unnecessary, or to correctly annotate everything with aria/alt-text properties in all the languages.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > I'm trying to discern a positive proposal from that, and the best I can extract seems to be "stop fighting and just let the bad people operate unopposed." That's not a very generous reading, I think. I am suggesting that the "bad people" seem to be doing fine, so at a certain point we might want to ask ourselves how far we take this "fight" in terms of sacrificing accessibility and privacy (to only name 2 concerns) to stop some percentage of bad actors. As someone who has been hurt by these efforts over the past 20+ years, and who has yet to hear a proposal for next steps that doesn't greatly worry me, I'm not going to be in favor of propositions just because "well we have to do something" > It may also be blaming the wrong factors and growing pains. It's easier to make an alternate CAPTCHA route than to convince management to not rely on a phone app or to correctly annotate everything with aria-properties in all the languages. We've had 20 years to make CAPTCHAs more accessible, yet they've gotten worse. Not to mention their efficacy being in question, hence the discussion about next steps (i.e., attestation)