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> Is consciousness even real, or is it just a feeling? And I've never heard a satisfactory argument that it is real. That you wrote this comment is ample evide

> Is consciousness even real, or is it just a feeling? And I've never heard a satisfactory argument that it is real. That you wrote this comment is ample evidence it is real, unless you are using a very non-standard definition of consciousness.

bccdee 2y ago
By consciousness, I mean my ineffable sense of here-ness and me-ness; the feeling that all the subjective experiences of my senses, redness and coldness and pleasure and longing are all "real things" happening to a "real self" that exists to experience the world in a way that a mere robot with the same behaviour might not. When I ask, "is consciousness real," I'm asking whether these feelings and intuitions represent some actual metaphysical reality about the human mind, or whether they are simply an artifact of how we perceive the world that manifests itself in the beliefs we espouse about ourselves. I certainly don't think that the existence of those feelings means anything about how our minds actually function. No belief or impression is, in and of itself, proof of anything when we might be naturally programmed to believe it.
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  > By consciousness, I mean my ineffable sense of here-ness and me-ness; the feeling that all the subjective experiences of my senses, redness and coldness and pleasure and longing are all "real things" happening to a "real self" that exists to experience the world in a way that a mere robot with the same behaviour might not. Sure. And you have that sense of here-ness and me-ness because you have self-awareness. You're able to reflect and ponder on your thoughts and experiences, as opposed to just somewhat blindly reacting to them. This is the difference between you and the robot you speak of. You can do that because you have self-awareness and meta-cognition, the same things required for you to write these replies that you have been writing. So I think my point stands, that the fact that you can write these messages and engage in these conversations should be more than sufficient proof that you are conscious and that consciousness is real.

bccdee 2y ago

By consciousness, I mean my ineffable sense of here-ness and me-ness; the feeling that all the subjective experiences of my senses, redness and coldness and pleasure and longing are all "real things" happening to a "real self" that exists to experience the world in a way that a mere robot with the same behaviour might not. When I ask, "is consciousness real," I'm asking whether these feelings and intuitions represent some actual metaphysical reality about the human mind, or whether they are simply an artifact of how we perceive the world that manifests itself in the beliefs we espouse about ourselves. I certainly don't think that the existence of those feelings means anything about how our minds actually function. No belief or impression is, in and of itself, proof of anything when we might be naturally programmed to believe it.

ruthmarx 2y ago
> By consciousness, I mean my ineffable sense of here-ness and me-ness; the feeling that all the subjective experiences of my senses, redness and coldness and pleasure and longing are all "real things" happening to a "real self" that exists to experience the world in a way that a mere robot with the same behaviour might not. Sure. And you have that sense of here-ness and me-ness because you have self-awareness. You're able to reflect and ponder on your thoughts and experiences, as opposed to just somewhat blindly reacting to them. This is the difference between you and the robot you speak of. You can do that because you have self-awareness and meta-cognition, the same things required for you to write these replies that you have been writing. So I think my point stands, that the fact that you can write these messages and engage in these conversations should be more than sufficient proof that you are conscious and that consciousness is real.