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> But then: if they've been on notice for many months about Mullenweg being > upset about their use of the trademarks and lack of participation in the community

> But then: if they've been on notice for many months about Mullenweg being > upset about their use of the trademarks and lack of participation in the community (confirmed on camera, unless he forged emails), it feels to me like WPE --- a company with an 8-9 figure run rate --- should have been in a position to know what was coming with WordPress.org and how to mitigate that. Matt's company owns and uses wordpress.com, so Matt's sudden concern about WP Engine using Wordpress' trademark does not seem very believable (or at the least massively hypocritical). The trademark issue just seems like a handy weapon to get what he wants. However, there are no good guys in this feud as you said -- only mud.

tptacek 2y ago
Again you're claiming it was "sudden", but it does not appear to have been sudden. Meanwhile: nobody seems to deny that WPE could simply use WordPress's OSS software assets to stand up their own services, including Mullenweg. But that's all open source gets you. It doesn't entitle you to trademarks or online services!
- infamia 2y ago
  > Again you're claiming it was "sudden", but it does not appear to have been sudden. It was definitely sudden, just last week the term "WP" was explicitly allowed in Wordpress' Trademark Policy. This issue isn't really trademarks, it is just a club. "The abbreviation “WP” is not covered by the WordPress trademarks and you are free to use it in any way you see fit." https://web.archive.org/web/20240924024555/https://wordpressfoundation.org/trademark-policy/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240924024555/https://wordpress... > But that's all open source gets you. It doesn't entitle you to trademarks Unless you're Mullenweg, who has abused the Wordpress trademark for years via wordpress.com. I greatly respect his years of work and dedication. However, the ends do not justify the means.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    No, he hasn't. Automattic's contributions back to the WordPress foundation dwarf those of WPE's. He gave a whole interview spelling out what other companies do to get access to commercial use of those trademarks. He wasn't even demanding parity with Automattic.
    - ValentineC 2y ago
      I'd like to point out that the WordPress Foundation is merely the entity that owns the trademark, then gave ("for good and valuable consideration" [1]) an exclusive, perpetual, and irrevocable licence for commercial use of it to Automattic. The WordPress project is not the foundation. The WordPress dot org website isn't under the foundation either (it's owned and run by Matt [2]), and should be considered separate from the project. I think most contributors outside Automattic want to contribute to the project and its surrounding community, not WordPress dot org. [1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/caseviewer/assignments?caseId=78826734&docIndex=0&searchprefix=sn#docIndex=0 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/caseviewer/assignments?caseId=7882673... [2] https://x.com/photomatt/status/1840980359673995362 https://x.com/photomatt/status/1840980359673995362
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

tptacek 2y ago

Again you're claiming it was "sudden", but it does not appear to have been sudden. Meanwhile: nobody seems to deny that WPE could simply use WordPress's OSS software assets to stand up their own services, including Mullenweg. But that's all open source gets you. It doesn't entitle you to trademarks or online services!

infamia 2y ago
> Again you're claiming it was "sudden", but it does not appear to have been sudden. It was definitely sudden, just last week the term "WP" was explicitly allowed in Wordpress' Trademark Policy. This issue isn't really trademarks, it is just a club. "The abbreviation “WP” is not covered by the WordPress trademarks and you are free to use it in any way you see fit." https://web.archive.org/web/20240924024555/https://wordpressfoundation.org/trademark-policy/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240924024555/https://wordpress... > But that's all open source gets you. It doesn't entitle you to trademarks Unless you're Mullenweg, who has abused the Wordpress trademark for years via wordpress.com. I greatly respect his years of work and dedication. However, the ends do not justify the means.
- tptacek 2y ago
  No, he hasn't. Automattic's contributions back to the WordPress foundation dwarf those of WPE's. He gave a whole interview spelling out what other companies do to get access to commercial use of those trademarks. He wasn't even demanding parity with Automattic.
  - ValentineC 2y ago
    I'd like to point out that the WordPress Foundation is merely the entity that owns the trademark, then gave ("for good and valuable consideration" [1]) an exclusive, perpetual, and irrevocable licence for commercial use of it to Automattic. The WordPress project is not the foundation. The WordPress dot org website isn't under the foundation either (it's owned and run by Matt [2]), and should be considered separate from the project. I think most contributors outside Automattic want to contribute to the project and its surrounding community, not WordPress dot org. [1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/caseviewer/assignments?caseId=78826734&docIndex=0&searchprefix=sn#docIndex=0 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/caseviewer/assignments?caseId=7882673... [2] https://x.com/photomatt/status/1840980359673995362 https://x.com/photomatt/status/1840980359673995362
- deleted 2y ago
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