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No, my argument is that the information on the web is about how to pirate games, no matter how it is couched in the tool documentation. The case for homebrew i

No, my argument is that the information on the web is about how to pirate games, no matter how it is couched in the tool documentation. The case for homebrew is in the homebrew software that is available, and all of the homebrew software that I have ever seen is absolute shite. Toy programs and simple SDK test tools, nothing of value other than the 3rd party SDKs themselves. It does not matter if you make a legitimate backup copy of a cart you own for safekeeping, emulation of legitimately owned copies of retail games is not an exemption of the DMCA. It doesn’t matter if you own a copy of the game, making a copy for any reason is not in accordance with the DMCA, as far as I’m aware. Exemptions to the DMCA are granted every few years, and some exemptions are rescinded at the same time. Copying game cartridges has never been an exemption. And even if it was, you can’t put your copy back onto a legitimate blank cartridge to regain playability if the original is destroyed. It’s a shitty situation to be sure, and it is wholly unfair. Blame gamers who are “morally opposed” to paying for games that they play. There are a lot of them, and they play a lot of games, and are often popular streamers on YouTube and Twitch. If people stopped pirating games so much, the homebrew and legitimate use people would have a solid defense and maybe even support in government, but the amount of piracy that goes on absolutely dwarfs legitimate uses of unlocked hardware. I personally am fascinated with Nintendo hardware and the choices made when they design their systems, and despite repeated efforts to get a Switch dev kit, I have been denied approval time and time again. I have no interest in piracy, I have interest in hardware platforms. But I am in the extremely small minority with that focus. If piracy slows somewhat dramatically, Nintendo won’t be able to do this with impunity like they do today. They will simply not have a leg to stand on when they say emulators are purely piracy mechanisms. But today, they really are. How many new games come out for the SNES every year? How many SNES emulators are there under active development? Are you going to say that all of those emulators and all of that time spent making them and perfecting them, making them cycle-perfect is done so that 1-2 games can come out every 1-2 years? EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY. Until that changes, Nintendo will keep doing this.

prmoustache 2y ago
> EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY. It is funny that when you replace EMULATORS with GUNS and PIRACY with INJURING AND KIllING, the very same people advocacing for the bans of emulators are the ones arguing that guns are for protection and not to harm others. But all emulators user combined don't harm nearly as much humanity as a single gun owner does.
- tpmoney 2y ago
  How did you reach the conclusion that there's a strong correlation between being a Corporate IP Rights Diehard and a Gun Rights Diehard? Was there some study that showed a link between supporting the individual right to own a firearm and support for banning individuals from owning software emulators? Perhaps the NRA or the 2AF file an amicus brief in support of Nintendo's fights against emulators recently? Or the other way around maybe? Did Nintendo of America file a motion in favor of striking down some firearms laws?
devmor 2y ago
> EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY Emulators are primarily used to play games that are no longer available on hardware that no longer exists. That is preservation, not piracy.
- WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW 2y ago
  Yes, and in the case of older games it is incredibly difficult for a company to prove any kind of damages against an individual since they no longer make the games available for sale.
- masactivator 2y ago
  Preservation Project Ryujinx - https://ryujinx-emulator.com https://ryujinx-emulator.com :)
- consteval 2y ago
  That doesn't apply for current generation consoles and games.
  - devmor 2y ago
    How exactly do you expect to preserve games if you only start after they are no longer available?
    - consteval 2y ago
      I would imagine the games don't disappear from existence the very moment a new console is released. The reality is that emulating and dumping current games is almost exclusively used for piracy purposes. Naturally, this isn't true for something like the N64.
      - devmor 2y ago
        That is not the reality, that is your personal opinion.
amlib 2y ago
Computers are primarily used for copying data, and thus by extension are perfect piracy machines. Should Nintendo go on an epic crusade to ban computers because many people use computers for piracy? It doesn't help that the copyright system is heavily unfavorable for the common folk and society as whole. Some pirate as a workaround or in protest of the current draconian copyright rules. Morally there is an argument to be made for recent works against piracy, but why should we care about old stuff that arguably should have already entered public domain like SNES games from the early 90s?
WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW 2y ago
> EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY. This is not a piracy issue. Please stop framing it as such. The primary use case is to run all your games on a single device. Nintendo want to lock customers into their ecosystem rather than competing on game quality alone. They know if you have a switch then you will likely buy other switch games etc. If you buy and play Mario Kart on your PC then you are much less likely to invest in the rest of the ecosystem. We should carve out legal provisions for emulators and circumventing DRM. Nintendo can then still go against individual people pirating software.
- naikrovek 2y ago
  It is absolutely a piracy issue. Nintendo are using the DMCA to fight piracy. It is extremely cut and dried in their eyes: emulation = piracy. Mario Kart exists on many non-Nintendo platforms legitimately already. The existence of Mario Kart in the arcade or on mobile devices brings people into the Nintendo ecosystem, not draw them out of it. It is a waste of time to fight individuals downloading games when the tools of emulation exist out in the open. that is why Nintendo are going after emulators themselves, at the current time, emulators are the big, easy wins.
- consteval 2y ago
  > This is not a piracy issue I don't think emulators or ROM dumps should be banned. However, it is a piracy issue because in the real world these are used almost exclusively for piracy. I think a "know nothing" type argument is very weak.
chithanh 2y ago
> EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY. Even if that is true (and I guess for that you'd have to classify downloading abandonware as piracy): Valve founder Gabe Newell famously said that piracy is a "service issue". So if you give emulator users the option of playing or buying legitimate copies without jumping through hoops, then piracy rates will drop.
- naikrovek 2y ago
  I don't understand how you consider the Nintendo Switch to be abandonware. Nintendo aren't taking down SNES emulators. They're not taking down GameCube emulators, they're taking down Switch emulators. The emulation community, -- again, mostly pirates -- have zero chill. The lesson that they desperately need to learn here is this: Do not bite the hand that feeds you. Emulating latest generation systems and games that are currently for sale for that system is biting the hand that feeds you.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    uh no. I am emulating Zelda Breath of the Wild to play it at higher resolution. I already own the cart and the console.
    - naikrovek 2y ago
      Hey, guess what? That’s piracy! You aren’t licensed to play that game on a PC or in an emulator. It doesn’t matter if you paid for the game and paid for the Nintendo Switch to play it on. If you used a hacked Switch to dump the console or you downloaded the rom, that’s piracy. It is not legal to circumvent the DMCA for fair use reasons.[1] It is very cut and dried in the legal world, and it would take a very significant case and a few appeals which uphold a decision that changes how the DMCA is interpreted in the courts. If you’re not in the US and not a US citizen, then I have no idea what laws apply to you or how they are interpreted. 1: https://copyrightresource.uw.edu/copyright-law/dmca/#exceptions https://copyrightresource.uw.edu/copyright-law/dmca/#excepti...
      - 2y ago

prmoustache 2y ago

> EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY. It is funny that when you replace EMULATORS with GUNS and PIRACY with INJURING AND KIllING, the very same people advocacing for the bans of emulators are the ones arguing that guns are for protection and not to harm others. But all emulators user combined don't harm nearly as much humanity as a single gun owner does.

tpmoney 2y ago
How did you reach the conclusion that there's a strong correlation between being a Corporate IP Rights Diehard and a Gun Rights Diehard? Was there some study that showed a link between supporting the individual right to own a firearm and support for banning individuals from owning software emulators? Perhaps the NRA or the 2AF file an amicus brief in support of Nintendo's fights against emulators recently? Or the other way around maybe? Did Nintendo of America file a motion in favor of striking down some firearms laws?

devmor 2y ago

> EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY Emulators are primarily used to play games that are no longer available on hardware that no longer exists. That is preservation, not piracy.

WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW 2y ago
Yes, and in the case of older games it is incredibly difficult for a company to prove any kind of damages against an individual since they no longer make the games available for sale.
masactivator 2y ago
Preservation Project Ryujinx - https://ryujinx-emulator.com https://ryujinx-emulator.com :)
consteval 2y ago
That doesn't apply for current generation consoles and games.
- devmor 2y ago
  How exactly do you expect to preserve games if you only start after they are no longer available?
  - consteval 2y ago
    I would imagine the games don't disappear from existence the very moment a new console is released. The reality is that emulating and dumping current games is almost exclusively used for piracy purposes. Naturally, this isn't true for something like the N64.
    - devmor 2y ago
      That is not the reality, that is your personal opinion.

amlib 2y ago

Computers are primarily used for copying data, and thus by extension are perfect piracy machines. Should Nintendo go on an epic crusade to ban computers because many people use computers for piracy? It doesn't help that the copyright system is heavily unfavorable for the common folk and society as whole. Some pirate as a workaround or in protest of the current draconian copyright rules. Morally there is an argument to be made for recent works against piracy, but why should we care about old stuff that arguably should have already entered public domain like SNES games from the early 90s?

WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW 2y ago

> EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY. This is not a piracy issue. Please stop framing it as such. The primary use case is to run all your games on a single device. Nintendo want to lock customers into their ecosystem rather than competing on game quality alone. They know if you have a switch then you will likely buy other switch games etc. If you buy and play Mario Kart on your PC then you are much less likely to invest in the rest of the ecosystem. We should carve out legal provisions for emulators and circumventing DRM. Nintendo can then still go against individual people pirating software.

naikrovek 2y ago
It is absolutely a piracy issue. Nintendo are using the DMCA to fight piracy. It is extremely cut and dried in their eyes: emulation = piracy. Mario Kart exists on many non-Nintendo platforms legitimately already. The existence of Mario Kart in the arcade or on mobile devices brings people into the Nintendo ecosystem, not draw them out of it. It is a waste of time to fight individuals downloading games when the tools of emulation exist out in the open. that is why Nintendo are going after emulators themselves, at the current time, emulators are the big, easy wins.
consteval 2y ago
> This is not a piracy issue I don't think emulators or ROM dumps should be banned. However, it is a piracy issue because in the real world these are used almost exclusively for piracy. I think a "know nothing" type argument is very weak.

chithanh 2y ago

> EMULATORS ARE PRIMARILY USED FOR PIRACY. Even if that is true (and I guess for that you'd have to classify downloading abandonware as piracy): Valve founder Gabe Newell famously said that piracy is a "service issue". So if you give emulator users the option of playing or buying legitimate copies without jumping through hoops, then piracy rates will drop.

naikrovek 2y ago
I don't understand how you consider the Nintendo Switch to be abandonware. Nintendo aren't taking down SNES emulators. They're not taking down GameCube emulators, they're taking down Switch emulators. The emulation community, -- again, mostly pirates -- have zero chill. The lesson that they desperately need to learn here is this: Do not bite the hand that feeds you. Emulating latest generation systems and games that are currently for sale for that system is biting the hand that feeds you.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  uh no. I am emulating Zelda Breath of the Wild to play it at higher resolution. I already own the cart and the console.
  - naikrovek 2y ago
    Hey, guess what? That’s piracy! You aren’t licensed to play that game on a PC or in an emulator. It doesn’t matter if you paid for the game and paid for the Nintendo Switch to play it on. If you used a hacked Switch to dump the console or you downloaded the rom, that’s piracy. It is not legal to circumvent the DMCA for fair use reasons.[1] It is very cut and dried in the legal world, and it would take a very significant case and a few appeals which uphold a decision that changes how the DMCA is interpreted in the courts. If you’re not in the US and not a US citizen, then I have no idea what laws apply to you or how they are interpreted. 1: https://copyrightresource.uw.edu/copyright-law/dmca/#exceptions https://copyrightresource.uw.edu/copyright-law/dmca/#excepti...
    - 2y ago