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> In other cases, though, the items could easily have ended up lost to time (or political, economic, social turmoil) That's a hard sell when the country that w

> In other cases, though, the items could easily have ended up lost to time (or political, economic, social turmoil) That's a hard sell when the country that winds up with the artifacts was also the primary agitator of political, social and economic turmoil (you know, the usual colonial stuff). An arsonist shouldn't get to keep victims' heirlooms to "save them from the conflagration".

rayiner 2y ago
[flagged]
- Neonlicht 2y ago
  It's entirely possible that Indonesia would not exist without Dutch colonisation. Indonesian nationalism was a response to colonialism.
  - xtreme 2y ago
    So what? Maybe there would have been multiple island nations, maybe they all would have seen other countries and joined hands together. Why should the Dutch get any say in what modern Indonesia should look like? Same goes for the parent comment about India. The decline of the Mughal empire and the possibility of multiple states arising instead of an unified India doesn't justify the British colonialism and in no way absolves them of their atrocities.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      Why get worked up about one foreign empire coming in and replacing another foreign empire?
- LiquidSky 2y ago
  "Your house was already in bad condition when I torched it" isn't exactly a great defense.
- shantnutiwari 2y ago
  >Most of these countries were colonized because they were in turmoil to begin with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Mughal_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Mughal_Empire Wow, great justification for imperialism, you deserve a medal. You do know India had other kindgoms besides the Mughals, right? Marathas, Sikhs, Kashmir, to name a few
Gud 2y ago
What did the Dutch do in Indonesia to spark social and economic turmoil? Genuinely curious.
- defrost 2y ago
  Endless stamping of militarised boot on the neck of any that objected? To clarify further, modern Indonesia includes some 17,000 islands that historically included almost as many different cultural variations. The Dutch East Indies included (according to the Dutch) most of those islands and more. The spice trade was a major revenue stream, so much so that one activity included destroying alternative sources of certain spices on islands that weren't part of the Dutch industrial spice pipeline - to avoid any chance of rivals from France, Germany, England, Spain, etc. sneaking in and getting their own cuttings to start rival plantations. The VOC (under that name (or another later?)) were active in the region from 1600 - 1940 (ish) when the Japanese swept through and seized oil supplies, etc. As for the rest; slavery, starting civil wars to divide and conquer, several waves of outright direct warring, destruction of libraries and buildings from local empires that went back centuries, .. the usual fun and games of colonial powers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies gives a bief outline.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  The Dutch Rubber slave plantations were the ones with all the fun "Meet your literally impossible quota or we chop off your child's hands" rules, and other utterly ruthless and disgusting methods of keeping control.

rayiner 2y ago

[flagged]

Neonlicht 2y ago
It's entirely possible that Indonesia would not exist without Dutch colonisation. Indonesian nationalism was a response to colonialism.
- xtreme 2y ago
  So what? Maybe there would have been multiple island nations, maybe they all would have seen other countries and joined hands together. Why should the Dutch get any say in what modern Indonesia should look like? Same goes for the parent comment about India. The decline of the Mughal empire and the possibility of multiple states arising instead of an unified India doesn't justify the British colonialism and in no way absolves them of their atrocities.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    Why get worked up about one foreign empire coming in and replacing another foreign empire?
LiquidSky 2y ago
"Your house was already in bad condition when I torched it" isn't exactly a great defense.
shantnutiwari 2y ago
>Most of these countries were colonized because they were in turmoil to begin with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Mughal_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Mughal_Empire Wow, great justification for imperialism, you deserve a medal. You do know India had other kindgoms besides the Mughals, right? Marathas, Sikhs, Kashmir, to name a few

Gud 2y ago

What did the Dutch do in Indonesia to spark social and economic turmoil? Genuinely curious.

defrost 2y ago
Endless stamping of militarised boot on the neck of any that objected? To clarify further, modern Indonesia includes some 17,000 islands that historically included almost as many different cultural variations. The Dutch East Indies included (according to the Dutch) most of those islands and more. The spice trade was a major revenue stream, so much so that one activity included destroying alternative sources of certain spices on islands that weren't part of the Dutch industrial spice pipeline - to avoid any chance of rivals from France, Germany, England, Spain, etc. sneaking in and getting their own cuttings to start rival plantations. The VOC (under that name (or another later?)) were active in the region from 1600 - 1940 (ish) when the Japanese swept through and seized oil supplies, etc. As for the rest; slavery, starting civil wars to divide and conquer, several waves of outright direct warring, destruction of libraries and buildings from local empires that went back centuries, .. the usual fun and games of colonial powers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies gives a bief outline.
mrguyorama 2y ago
The Dutch Rubber slave plantations were the ones with all the fun "Meet your literally impossible quota or we chop off your child's hands" rules, and other utterly ruthless and disgusting methods of keeping control.