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>but is there any reason to think that in 30-40 years the only people writing Java will be retirees maintaining old banking systems? It feels like we're gettin

>but is there any reason to think that in 30-40 years the only people writing Java will be retirees maintaining old banking systems? It feels like we're getting into that space already.

Muromec 2y ago
Nah not really. People just started replacing COBOL with java and employers are wise enough to hire people who are 30-40 years minimum from retirement. It can also be upgraded in smaller chunks and finding enough developers for the tool is an important metric corporate is looking at. If anything, banks are actively optimizing for developer experience to make sure 60% of new hires don’t run away in the first year. If anything, banks are better at navigating those kind of structural risks, they were just slow on undertaking such risks exist. If you have an episode of existential anxiety because of dat AI eating mijn job, getting a union job in a bank is a way to hedge this particular risk.
- gwd 2y ago
  > ...employers are wise enough to hire people who are 30-40 years minimum from retirement. Um oh yeah, the reason we're hiring 20-year-olds is because we want to ensure we have lifelong support for the new system we're writing. Not because they're cheaper, they're still idealistic and naive, they'll work long hours for foosball tables and stacks, or anything like that...
  - Muromec 2y ago
    In a place where you can imagine having COBOL, working long hours is frown upon and being idealistic beyond personal integrity isn't a good quality either. Not saying such places aren't cheap, as of course they are. Being cheap is their exact point.
- User23 2y ago
  > employers are wise enough to hire people who are 30-40 years minimum from retirement. Well I hope they’re wise enough to not let any good employment attorneys catch wind because that’s blatantly illegal.
  - Muromec 2y ago
    It's not a requirement, but the outcome of hiring results demographics wise is very visible.
  - consteval 2y ago
    The problem with such laws is it's trivial to avoid. Do they look old? I mean, you can't presume someone is thinking about age when they choose not to hire someone, but they definitely could be. Discrimination is an almost "thought crime", meaning you can commit it entirely in your head. But the outcome is real. So it's very tough to spot, particularly when said discrimination also aligns with the most common societal biases.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  > employers are wise enough to hire people who are 30-40 years minimum from retirement. Uhm... loyalty is punnished and workers need to change jobs to keep 'market rate' wages. So dunno about that. I think it is more about that newcomers to the job market are easier to abuse.
strken 2y ago
I think Android makes a difference here. Sure, a lot of people are on Kotlin, but a lot aren't.

>but is there any reason to think that in 30-40 years the only people writing Java will be retirees maintaining old banking systems? It feels like we're getting into that space already.

Muromec 2y ago

Nah not really. People just started replacing COBOL with java and employers are wise enough to hire people who are 30-40 years minimum from retirement. It can also be upgraded in smaller chunks and finding enough developers for the tool is an important metric corporate is looking at. If anything, banks are actively optimizing for developer experience to make sure 60% of new hires don’t run away in the first year. If anything, banks are better at navigating those kind of structural risks, they were just slow on undertaking such risks exist. If you have an episode of existential anxiety because of dat AI eating mijn job, getting a union job in a bank is a way to hedge this particular risk.

gwd 2y ago
> ...employers are wise enough to hire people who are 30-40 years minimum from retirement. Um oh yeah, the reason we're hiring 20-year-olds is because we want to ensure we have lifelong support for the new system we're writing. Not because they're cheaper, they're still idealistic and naive, they'll work long hours for foosball tables and stacks, or anything like that...
- Muromec 2y ago
  In a place where you can imagine having COBOL, working long hours is frown upon and being idealistic beyond personal integrity isn't a good quality either. Not saying such places aren't cheap, as of course they are. Being cheap is their exact point.
User23 2y ago
> employers are wise enough to hire people who are 30-40 years minimum from retirement. Well I hope they’re wise enough to not let any good employment attorneys catch wind because that’s blatantly illegal.
- Muromec 2y ago
  It's not a requirement, but the outcome of hiring results demographics wise is very visible.
- consteval 2y ago
  The problem with such laws is it's trivial to avoid. Do they look old? I mean, you can't presume someone is thinking about age when they choose not to hire someone, but they definitely could be. Discrimination is an almost "thought crime", meaning you can commit it entirely in your head. But the outcome is real. So it's very tough to spot, particularly when said discrimination also aligns with the most common societal biases.
rightbyte 2y ago
> employers are wise enough to hire people who are 30-40 years minimum from retirement. Uhm... loyalty is punnished and workers need to change jobs to keep 'market rate' wages. So dunno about that. I think it is more about that newcomers to the job market are easier to abuse.

strken 2y ago

I think Android makes a difference here. Sure, a lot of people are on Kotlin, but a lot aren't.