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This US is not an oligarchy. That's a polemic. With no hard reasoning to support it other than, "Of course it is, and if you can't see that you must be brainw

This US is not an oligarchy. That's a polemic. With no hard reasoning to support it other than, "Of course it is, and if you can't see that you must be brainwashed, because the oligarchy." Its system is better described as an unhealthy democracy, suffering from a peculiar hybrid of diabetes and mild but persistent dementia. In any case it has multiple centers of corruption and undue influence, including populist movements (such as MAGA and the religious right), special interest groups (the gun lobby, AIPAC) which are quite powerful and not simply appendages of any particular oligarch. As well as corrective influences (such as its judiciary branches and a reasonably free and diligent press) that keep the system from tipping over. It is also significant that its electoral process, being distributed across 50+ states and territories, actually requires significant effort to corrupt (one can't just grab the steering wheel and overturn results in multiple states at once). It also has a deep state. It is quite significant that its functionaries get to keep their generally secure and reasonably well-paid jobs, no matter who sits in the Whitehouse, and regardless of which party runs Congress, or which countries the US is at war with pretends to be this year or the next. The key thing about these people is they don't really want control, and they don't have much of an ideology. They just want stability. And then there are oligarchs, greasing palms and buying up news and social media outlets and so forth. But a straight-up oligarchy it is not.

exceptione 2y ago
It is a scale indeed, but do not underestimate the situation. The self-image of the US is blinding populace and lawmakers alike. One thing that doesn't help is that the media has been run by oligarchs. Technically the US has been 'downrated' from democracy to anocracy. For a little more depth see [0]. You wouldn't find much about it in US media, which is not unsurprising. (Just as meaningful debate about policy is absent.) EDIT: > a reasonably free and diligent press Corporate ownership has an intense effect on press. The NYT Pitchbot illustrates how this has led NYT into hilarious self-incrimination, with an endless parade of Botshidisms and False Balances, just to brush up a coup leader as a presidents candidate: https://xcancel.com/DougJBalloon https://xcancel.com/DougJBalloon ___ 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_...
AndrewKemendo 2y ago
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens “Abstract Each of four theoretical traditions in the study of American politics—which can be characterized as theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy, Economic-Elite Domination, and two types of interest-group pluralism, Majoritarian Pluralism and Biased Pluralism—offers different predictions about which sets of actors have how much influence over public policy: average citizens; economic elites; and organized interest groups, mass-based or business-oriented. A great deal of empirical research speaks to the policy influence of one or another set of actors, but until recently it has not been possible to test these contrasting theoretical predictions against each other within a single statistical model. We report on an effort to do so, using a unique data set that includes measures of the key variables for 1,779 policy issues. Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism.” Please provide me with your sources on the “Deep State” (0) https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B# https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Yes, there are studies and I think they're great and largely valid, but there are also rebuttals (easily findable). At the end of the day, I don't think these assessments can be proven or disproven by theoretical models and numerical analysis. It's not like trying to establish the effect of a certain kind of monetary policy. It's more a matter of understanding the basic ideology on which the country runs (even as many aspects of American society do change over time, for example in regard to racial/social tolerance, appetite for foreign intervention, etc). On top of broad-scale character observation, in terms of what seems to make people really tick (and to make so many of them get so caught up in things like their guns, their pet conspiracy theories, or in their idea of some lost "greatness" that America supposedly once had, in ways that do end up moving the needle on the larger political stage, but which aren't simply the outcome of a coin-op lobbying system, gerrymandering or a muzzled press, i.e. the levers of influence that oligarchs typically work through, though of course they do get to lean on these levers and they do have disproportionate influence). As to "deep state" -- sorry, no sources and it's an entirely unscientific assessment as well. Plenty of people have written about it though, and their stuff is easy to find also.

exceptione 2y ago

It is a scale indeed, but do not underestimate the situation. The self-image of the US is blinding populace and lawmakers alike. One thing that doesn't help is that the media has been run by oligarchs. Technically the US has been 'downrated' from democracy to anocracy. For a little more depth see [0]. You wouldn't find much about it in US media, which is not unsurprising. (Just as meaningful debate about policy is absent.) EDIT: > a reasonably free and diligent press Corporate ownership has an intense effect on press. The NYT Pitchbot illustrates how this has led NYT into hilarious self-incrimination, with an endless parade of Botshidisms and False Balances, just to brush up a coup leader as a presidents candidate: https://xcancel.com/DougJBalloon https://xcancel.com/DougJBalloon ___ 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_...

AndrewKemendo 2y ago

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens “Abstract Each of four theoretical traditions in the study of American politics—which can be characterized as theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy, Economic-Elite Domination, and two types of interest-group pluralism, Majoritarian Pluralism and Biased Pluralism—offers different predictions about which sets of actors have how much influence over public policy: average citizens; economic elites; and organized interest groups, mass-based or business-oriented. A great deal of empirical research speaks to the policy influence of one or another set of actors, but until recently it has not been possible to test these contrasting theoretical predictions against each other within a single statistical model. We report on an effort to do so, using a unique data set that includes measures of the key variables for 1,779 policy issues. Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism.” Please provide me with your sources on the “Deep State” (0) https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B# https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

aguaviva 2y ago
Yes, there are studies and I think they're great and largely valid, but there are also rebuttals (easily findable). At the end of the day, I don't think these assessments can be proven or disproven by theoretical models and numerical analysis. It's not like trying to establish the effect of a certain kind of monetary policy. It's more a matter of understanding the basic ideology on which the country runs (even as many aspects of American society do change over time, for example in regard to racial/social tolerance, appetite for foreign intervention, etc). On top of broad-scale character observation, in terms of what seems to make people really tick (and to make so many of them get so caught up in things like their guns, their pet conspiracy theories, or in their idea of some lost "greatness" that America supposedly once had, in ways that do end up moving the needle on the larger political stage, but which aren't simply the outcome of a coin-op lobbying system, gerrymandering or a muzzled press, i.e. the levers of influence that oligarchs typically work through, though of course they do get to lean on these levers and they do have disproportionate influence). As to "deep state" -- sorry, no sources and it's an entirely unscientific assessment as well. Plenty of people have written about it though, and their stuff is easy to find also.