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If I'm not terrible at my math... T-Mobile earned $8 billion in 2023. Some division later, that works out to $21,000,000 per day. They were fined less than on

If I'm not terrible at my math... T-Mobile earned $8 billion in 2023. Some division later, that works out to $21,000,000 per day. They were fined less than one day's income. If I owned that company, increasing IT security would be near the bottom of my list of priorities.

focusedone 2y ago
FCC: "That'll teach 'em"
- freedomben 2y ago
  My guess is that the FCC doesn't have a ton of discretion here. They probably have to follow the law. And no doubt an "unreasonbly" large fine would be challenged in court and probably overturned, so this may be the best they can do.
  - outside1234 2y ago
    And/or lobbying has made the fines very small
freedomben 2y ago
Is the $8B profit or revenue? To your point, $16M is surely not a big fine for such a big company though, but I do think it's important not conflate profit and revenue when evaluating fines. Generally speaking, I would love to see some much harsher penalties for negligence with data. I want companies to start seeing customer data as a liability, not as an asset, and I don't think that will happen until f**k-ups starts really making a dent in the bank account.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  > Is the $8B profit or revenue? Profit, their revenue is almost 80 billion. Fines like this should be certainly based on revenue rather than profit, though (like the EU does it)
  - freedomben 2y ago
    Why should they be based on revenue rather than profit? (I'm not disagreeing, interested to understand your reasoning)
    - c0wb0yc0d3r 2y ago
      No the person you were replying to, but my reason is that revenue is before expenses. The fine actually has to cost the company money for it to mean anything.
    - supertrope 2y ago
      Businesses can strategically reduce taxable income. Gross revenue is less malleable.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  It’s $8.3B in net income (so profit) - see slide 4 in this PDF: https://s29.q4cdn.com/310188824/files/doc_financials/2023/ar/TMUS-2023-Annual-Report.pdf https://s29.q4cdn.com/310188824/files/doc_financials/2023/ar...
- default-kramer 2y ago
  I still think the C-suite won't care unless the cleanup/penalty costs get pulled directly from their bonus before anywhere else. Otherwise it will just be "oops, I tanked this business, better luck at the next one."
notinmykernel 2y ago
As part of the agreement, TMobile has to harden IT security and show proof (e.g., CISO who reports regularly to feds, adoption of Zero Trust, adoption of minimal data retention policy). Why TMobile must have their hand held like this is beyond me.
- beefok 2y ago
  AND we get increased monthly bills to pay for the cost of their fuckups.
- AdmiralAsshat 2y ago
  And if T-Mobile fails to live up to their end of the agreement, what's the punishment? More meaningless fines?
jrwoodruff 2y ago
The equivalent of about $200 for someone making $100,000/yr

focusedone 2y ago

FCC: "That'll teach 'em"

freedomben 2y ago
My guess is that the FCC doesn't have a ton of discretion here. They probably have to follow the law. And no doubt an "unreasonbly" large fine would be challenged in court and probably overturned, so this may be the best they can do.
- outside1234 2y ago
  And/or lobbying has made the fines very small

freedomben 2y ago

Is the $8B profit or revenue? To your point, $16M is surely not a big fine for such a big company though, but I do think it's important not conflate profit and revenue when evaluating fines. Generally speaking, I would love to see some much harsher penalties for negligence with data. I want companies to start seeing customer data as a liability, not as an asset, and I don't think that will happen until f**k-ups starts really making a dent in the bank account.

Wytwwww 2y ago
> Is the $8B profit or revenue? Profit, their revenue is almost 80 billion. Fines like this should be certainly based on revenue rather than profit, though (like the EU does it)
- freedomben 2y ago
  Why should they be based on revenue rather than profit? (I'm not disagreeing, interested to understand your reasoning)
  - c0wb0yc0d3r 2y ago
    No the person you were replying to, but my reason is that revenue is before expenses. The fine actually has to cost the company money for it to mean anything.
  - supertrope 2y ago
    Businesses can strategically reduce taxable income. Gross revenue is less malleable.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
It’s $8.3B in net income (so profit) - see slide 4 in this PDF: https://s29.q4cdn.com/310188824/files/doc_financials/2023/ar/TMUS-2023-Annual-Report.pdf https://s29.q4cdn.com/310188824/files/doc_financials/2023/ar...
default-kramer 2y ago
I still think the C-suite won't care unless the cleanup/penalty costs get pulled directly from their bonus before anywhere else. Otherwise it will just be "oops, I tanked this business, better luck at the next one."

notinmykernel 2y ago

As part of the agreement, TMobile has to harden IT security and show proof (e.g., CISO who reports regularly to feds, adoption of Zero Trust, adoption of minimal data retention policy). Why TMobile must have their hand held like this is beyond me.

beefok 2y ago
AND we get increased monthly bills to pay for the cost of their fuckups.
AdmiralAsshat 2y ago
And if T-Mobile fails to live up to their end of the agreement, what's the punishment? More meaningless fines?

jrwoodruff 2y ago

The equivalent of about $200 for someone making $100,000/yr