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Not really trying to start a political debate, but, > would be a significant escalation that threatens to spark an all-out war in the Middle East that the Bid

Not really trying to start a political debate, but, > would be a significant escalation that threatens to spark an all-out war in the Middle East that the Biden administration has desperately tried to avoid. Did they, though? Because every single action the US has taken in the last ~year seems to have been leading to this exact outcome.

kranke155 2y ago
You must've missed the fact that Biden has been pushing for deescalation for ages.
- peacechance 2y ago
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- JohnMakin 2y ago
  No, I didn't miss that, nor did I miss the millions of dollars of weapons this administration has also sent, nor the warships and troops - that doesn't seem very "de-escalate"y to me, personally, but maybe I'm nuts.
  - legitster 2y ago
    > nor the warships and troops I am not sure what you are implying - the US parking warships nearby seems like a strong deterrent. It didn't work this time, but it didn't mean it's a bad idea.
    - kranke155 2y ago
      Deliberate misunderstandings or just a general incomprehension of how deterrence works. You use deterrence to prevent a bigger conflict. It's on Israel and its leadership (Bibi) that they used the lull between their increasingly brazen attacks against their opponents as an excuse to launch a full scale invasion of a neighbouring country.
      - raxxorraxor 2y ago
        Israel didn't start many conflicts, I have none in my head. This of course was also caused by an attack by Hamas and Hezbollah, which lead us to today.
        aguaviva 2y ago
        '56, '67 and '82 were all clearly initiated by Israel. That's half of their top 6, actually.
        fdslfkjdslkffd 2y ago
        [flagged]
        aguaviva 2y ago
        I'm fully aware of the background. You're confusing the official spin on events with the basic, kinetic nature of the events themselves. A pre-emptive strike is still, by definition, initiated by the country taking that action.
        fdslfkjdslkffd 2y ago
        And you are cleary using a false argument. GP said that the conflict werent started by israel while your argument is about who started the kinetic war. A conflict in these cases started before the first shot was fired, hence your take is just wrong.
        aguaviva 2y ago
        Right, I was talking about kinetic engagements. Which are pretty much all that matter when one makes the mistake of stepping into these silly "who started it?" debates. As for who started the whole "conflict" in Palestine, metaphysically speaking -- we all know the answer to that question.
- 10xDev 2y ago
  [flagged]
legitster 2y ago
The US is the reason Israel didn't respond to the April attacks from Iran. They have also been breathing down Israel's neck about their use of force and escalation problems in Gaza and now Lebanon. You would have to do a very bad faith reading of the news over the last year to imply the current administration has been trying to increase tension between Iran and Israel.
- 10xDev 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - HaZeust 2y ago
    What are you on about? https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/05/09/netanyahu-says-israel-will-stand-alone-if-it-has-after-threatened-us-arms-holdup.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/05/09/netanyahu-say... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/netanyahu-biden-delegation-hamas-b2520354.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... In 2024, U.S. officials expressed increasing frustration for Netanyahu due to his handling of the Gaza war and relations with the U.S. There were tensions over his reluctance to negotiate ceasefires and his perceived prioritization of political survival over broader strategic interests. There were serious criticisms, including calls for him to step down.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      There were serious criticisms, including calls for him to step down. I'm not aware of any. Can you point to specifics?
      - HaZeust 2y ago
        My Independent article?
        aguaviva 2y ago
        That's your phrasing of the article, but it's not what it says. Nowhere does it mention "calls by US officials for him to step down".
red014 2y ago
[flagged]

kranke155 2y ago

You must've missed the fact that Biden has been pushing for deescalation for ages.

peacechance 2y ago
[flagged]
JohnMakin 2y ago
No, I didn't miss that, nor did I miss the millions of dollars of weapons this administration has also sent, nor the warships and troops - that doesn't seem very "de-escalate"y to me, personally, but maybe I'm nuts.
- legitster 2y ago
  > nor the warships and troops I am not sure what you are implying - the US parking warships nearby seems like a strong deterrent. It didn't work this time, but it didn't mean it's a bad idea.
  - kranke155 2y ago
    Deliberate misunderstandings or just a general incomprehension of how deterrence works. You use deterrence to prevent a bigger conflict. It's on Israel and its leadership (Bibi) that they used the lull between their increasingly brazen attacks against their opponents as an excuse to launch a full scale invasion of a neighbouring country.
    - raxxorraxor 2y ago
      Israel didn't start many conflicts, I have none in my head. This of course was also caused by an attack by Hamas and Hezbollah, which lead us to today.
      - aguaviva 2y ago
        '56, '67 and '82 were all clearly initiated by Israel. That's half of their top 6, actually.
        fdslfkjdslkffd 2y ago
        [flagged]
        aguaviva 2y ago
        I'm fully aware of the background. You're confusing the official spin on events with the basic, kinetic nature of the events themselves. A pre-emptive strike is still, by definition, initiated by the country taking that action.
        fdslfkjdslkffd 2y ago
        And you are cleary using a false argument. GP said that the conflict werent started by israel while your argument is about who started the kinetic war. A conflict in these cases started before the first shot was fired, hence your take is just wrong.
        aguaviva 2y ago
        Right, I was talking about kinetic engagements. Which are pretty much all that matter when one makes the mistake of stepping into these silly "who started it?" debates. As for who started the whole "conflict" in Palestine, metaphysically speaking -- we all know the answer to that question.
10xDev 2y ago
[flagged]

legitster 2y ago

The US is the reason Israel didn't respond to the April attacks from Iran. They have also been breathing down Israel's neck about their use of force and escalation problems in Gaza and now Lebanon. You would have to do a very bad faith reading of the news over the last year to imply the current administration has been trying to increase tension between Iran and Israel.

10xDev 2y ago
[flagged]
- HaZeust 2y ago
  What are you on about? https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/05/09/netanyahu-says-israel-will-stand-alone-if-it-has-after-threatened-us-arms-holdup.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/05/09/netanyahu-say... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/netanyahu-biden-delegation-hamas-b2520354.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... In 2024, U.S. officials expressed increasing frustration for Netanyahu due to his handling of the Gaza war and relations with the U.S. There were tensions over his reluctance to negotiate ceasefires and his perceived prioritization of political survival over broader strategic interests. There were serious criticisms, including calls for him to step down.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    There were serious criticisms, including calls for him to step down. I'm not aware of any. Can you point to specifics?
    - HaZeust 2y ago
      My Independent article?
      - aguaviva 2y ago
        That's your phrasing of the article, but it's not what it says. Nowhere does it mention "calls by US officials for him to step down".

red014 2y ago

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