21 ms·

> If you do not have personal experiences with these areas or the people in them I do, and of course there was suffering. I think you're taking me for a commie

> If you do not have personal experiences with these areas or the people in them I do, and of course there was suffering. I think you're taking me for a commie, that's not the case. > Solving something like cancer is simply much more monumental than anything that came before Um... no. No it's not. It just seems that way now because we solved so much. If you go back 500 years and ask them what they need solved, they wouldn't say cancer. This is actually evidence of my point. As time goes on, our problems become smaller, so thing appear bigger. Cancer appears now as HUGE deal, but historically people dealt with things like infant mortality - where HALF of all infants died. Could you even imagine that in the context of modern life? We fixed that with aseptic technique and vit K. Now, because we did that, we have the opportunity to focus on problems like cancer, which wasn't even something we cared enough to look at in the past. It's to the point where we're so far removed from fundamental flaws of humanity, they are literally unthinkable, unimaginable. You cannot even conceptualize them. Our own understanding of death has changed since we've eliminated so much death. > What a strange comment. It's as if you assume that the average person has some set of knowledge Incorrect, and if you noticed my paragraph above this, I don't know how you concluded that. It's not a matter of knowledge, knowledge is infinite. It's a matter of aptitude or potential, and that is not infinite. We can teach everyone everything, but it won't stick, because not everyone can learn everything. > If anything, the limit ... is quite high. I disgaree, we're already reaching the limit with our current knowledge and technology. In the past two decades, kids were forced essentially to go to college. However, some could not do it, and now they are subject to a life of menial jobs with poverty pay. This is in contrast to the prior generation, where high school grads could get decent jobs. It's to a point where college grads, with bachelor's degrees, are now making 20 dollars an hour out of college (depends on the degree). Better than high school grads making 12, but not by much. Masters will be the next bachelors in the next 10 years, probably sooner. The end result is large chunks of people being assigned to poverty. The newer advice for them is to simply turn to trades - I'm sure you've heard this. The idea being trading off your physical health for being able to perform a job that both pays okay and fits their level of aptitude. This should be obvious to you. Truthfully, I don't know how you don't see it. Maybe it's just because I'm Gen Z so I got slapped in the face with this since birth. But every single day it was pounded into our heads we NEED to go to college or we will fail at life. This WAS NOT the case of the prior generations. I am extremely lucky to have the ability to perform okay in college. If I was born, say, 20 years later it's likely I would not have the ability. If someone like my mother, bless her heart, was born today she would not make even a quarter what she makes now. But, I know many people who did not or could not go to college. Some went anyway and got 'easy' degrees. Despite being educated, they are now making close to nothing. Some are now getting masters, because that's the only way to make money. And some didn't go and are now flipping burgers because that's all that's out there.

satvikpendem 2y ago
> historically people dealt with things like infant mortality - where HALF of all infants died. Could you even imagine that in the context of modern life? Sure, that's all well and good, but the amount of suffering caused by that versus cancer is not comparable. > kids were forced essentially to go to college. However, some could not do it, and now they are subject to a life of menial jobs with poverty pay. This is in contrast to the prior generation, where high school grads could get decent jobs. You should read Capital in the 21st Century. The conclusion is that the postwar period was a unique point of time where the US was not affected by destruction but could use the proceeds of the Marshall Plan to have cheap education and wealthy citizenry, something that has not been replicated prior or since. In reality, this was short lived and now we are living in an era where we must toil to survive, as we used to. That our close ancestors did not have to do so is not a conclusion about them, but about a conclusion about the wider socioeconomic climate. So many people take the post war period of their parents and grandparents are gospel. Those times were never to persist in reality. > I disgaree, we're already reaching the limit with our current knowledge and technology. In you current jobs? Sure, perhaps, but not in actuality of knowledge about the world and universe. > Maybe it's just because I'm Gen Z so I got slapped in the face with this since birth. But every single day it was pounded into our heads we NEED to go to college or we will fail at life. Ah, there is the rub. I take heart in your toil but again, you are not special. No human has been in the history of mankind. There have always been trials and tribulations to consider. If you disagree with me, so be it, but the truth does not change, just as it has not changed with me. > Some went anyway and got 'easy' degrees. Despite being educated, they are now making close to nothing. Some are now getting masters, because that's the only way to make money. And some didn't go and are now flipping burgers because that's all that's out there. I mean, yes, this has been repeated ad nauseum. The joke about underwater basketweaving has apparently been active since the '50s [0]. You are blaming the wrong people for this, and to be honest, I am not sure who you should blame, because as Piketty says, it is an emergent problem in the field. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_basket_weaving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_basket_weaving
- consteval 2y ago
  > Sure, that's all well and good, but the amount of suffering caused by that versus cancer is not comparable. You're correct - the amount of death we deal with now is so much less it's not even comparable. I'm not comparing an abstract here like "suffering" - although, if I wanted to, it would be easy to argue that has also gone down. It's truly undebatable that less people die now. > it is an emergent problem in the field Correct, it's a simple consequence of our economic systems that we haven't solved. It's a fundamental flaw. In order to survive, you must work. What happens to those who cannot work? We have put bandaid after bandaid, but the fundamental problem remains. I get the feeling you don't see this as a real problem because nobody is causing it directly. But it is real. It's real right now, and it's been getting progressively worse and nobody knows what to do. If 10% of people cannot earn a college degree, what happens to them? This isn't a hypothetical. As time goes on, those people are reserved to a life of poverty. 50 years ago, they would be just fine, there was plenty of labor jobs that paid well. Now peer 50 years into the future. 30% cannot get a master's degree or some hypothetical equivalent benchmark. And so 30% live in poverty? And now 100 years into the future. 70% cannot earn a phd or some hypothetical equivalent benchmark. And...? Our economy? They cannot buy. What happens then? > There have always been trials and tribulations to consider You're not thinking logically here. Humans have a limit, we all fall somewhere on a bell curve. If we push the jobs up and up and up the bell curve, as we have, we reach a tipping point! If we automate any more than we currently have, I fear we won't have jobs left that people can do. Even you, too, have a limit. You are not the smartest human alive I take it. Prepose you must be in order to work. What will you do? Sure, we can look at something like automatic phone directories replacing secretaries and say "well they can skill up and get a different job". What happens when AI replaces the entire bottom half of knowledge jobs? Can those people "skill up"? They barely passed school to be an accountant and now that job is automated, they're already at their limit. Or, at least, some of them are. What if YOUR own job is automated? What will YOU do? What if the only way to progress is to be a top 10% engineer? Well, are you? If not, will you ever be? It's possible the answer is no, and you're just fucked. There's no other way to put it, a large amount of people are just fucked. Until the majority is fucked, and then the system implodes on itself because the bold assumptions it made can no longer be fulfilled. No work, no capitalism, no economy, no humanity. We've gotten very lucky that initial assumption has held true. I don't believe it will hold true forever.

satvikpendem 2y ago

> historically people dealt with things like infant mortality - where HALF of all infants died. Could you even imagine that in the context of modern life? Sure, that's all well and good, but the amount of suffering caused by that versus cancer is not comparable. > kids were forced essentially to go to college. However, some could not do it, and now they are subject to a life of menial jobs with poverty pay. This is in contrast to the prior generation, where high school grads could get decent jobs. You should read Capital in the 21st Century. The conclusion is that the postwar period was a unique point of time where the US was not affected by destruction but could use the proceeds of the Marshall Plan to have cheap education and wealthy citizenry, something that has not been replicated prior or since. In reality, this was short lived and now we are living in an era where we must toil to survive, as we used to. That our close ancestors did not have to do so is not a conclusion about them, but about a conclusion about the wider socioeconomic climate. So many people take the post war period of their parents and grandparents are gospel. Those times were never to persist in reality. > I disgaree, we're already reaching the limit with our current knowledge and technology. In you current jobs? Sure, perhaps, but not in actuality of knowledge about the world and universe. > Maybe it's just because I'm Gen Z so I got slapped in the face with this since birth. But every single day it was pounded into our heads we NEED to go to college or we will fail at life. Ah, there is the rub. I take heart in your toil but again, you are not special. No human has been in the history of mankind. There have always been trials and tribulations to consider. If you disagree with me, so be it, but the truth does not change, just as it has not changed with me. > Some went anyway and got 'easy' degrees. Despite being educated, they are now making close to nothing. Some are now getting masters, because that's the only way to make money. And some didn't go and are now flipping burgers because that's all that's out there. I mean, yes, this has been repeated ad nauseum. The joke about underwater basketweaving has apparently been active since the '50s [0]. You are blaming the wrong people for this, and to be honest, I am not sure who you should blame, because as Piketty says, it is an emergent problem in the field. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_basket_weaving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_basket_weaving

consteval 2y ago
> Sure, that's all well and good, but the amount of suffering caused by that versus cancer is not comparable. You're correct - the amount of death we deal with now is so much less it's not even comparable. I'm not comparing an abstract here like "suffering" - although, if I wanted to, it would be easy to argue that has also gone down. It's truly undebatable that less people die now. > it is an emergent problem in the field Correct, it's a simple consequence of our economic systems that we haven't solved. It's a fundamental flaw. In order to survive, you must work. What happens to those who cannot work? We have put bandaid after bandaid, but the fundamental problem remains. I get the feeling you don't see this as a real problem because nobody is causing it directly. But it is real. It's real right now, and it's been getting progressively worse and nobody knows what to do. If 10% of people cannot earn a college degree, what happens to them? This isn't a hypothetical. As time goes on, those people are reserved to a life of poverty. 50 years ago, they would be just fine, there was plenty of labor jobs that paid well. Now peer 50 years into the future. 30% cannot get a master's degree or some hypothetical equivalent benchmark. And so 30% live in poverty? And now 100 years into the future. 70% cannot earn a phd or some hypothetical equivalent benchmark. And...? Our economy? They cannot buy. What happens then? > There have always been trials and tribulations to consider You're not thinking logically here. Humans have a limit, we all fall somewhere on a bell curve. If we push the jobs up and up and up the bell curve, as we have, we reach a tipping point! If we automate any more than we currently have, I fear we won't have jobs left that people can do. Even you, too, have a limit. You are not the smartest human alive I take it. Prepose you must be in order to work. What will you do? Sure, we can look at something like automatic phone directories replacing secretaries and say "well they can skill up and get a different job". What happens when AI replaces the entire bottom half of knowledge jobs? Can those people "skill up"? They barely passed school to be an accountant and now that job is automated, they're already at their limit. Or, at least, some of them are. What if YOUR own job is automated? What will YOU do? What if the only way to progress is to be a top 10% engineer? Well, are you? If not, will you ever be? It's possible the answer is no, and you're just fucked. There's no other way to put it, a large amount of people are just fucked. Until the majority is fucked, and then the system implodes on itself because the bold assumptions it made can no longer be fulfilled. No work, no capitalism, no economy, no humanity. We've gotten very lucky that initial assumption has held true. I don't believe it will hold true forever.