5 ms·

Ads in a console which you paid for should be a big no regardless of not being an error. I can't be the only person who thinks Sony's interface design is just

Ads in a console which you paid for should be a big no regardless of not being an error. I can't be the only person who thinks Sony's interface design is just plain hostile. I've used a PS4 as a media machine of sorts for a long time, mostly for Youtube. I recall being able to pin used applications in the past but you can't do that anymore. You need to go to the media folder where you are presented with their current streaming offers and need to scroll down to YouTube or Plex. It's a far cry from the awesome, snappy and easy to use Vita bubbles interface. Combined with forcing PC users to log in with their PSN account to play offline games and I'm simply not buying anything from this company anymore.

vundercind 2y ago
PS3 was peak modern console UI. No-nonsense, easy, clear, fast. Was so happy when I first tried RetroArch to find that their default simply copied the PS3. The store was terrible, though. Their Cell “supercomputer” could play advanced 3D games, but couldn’t handle rendering a web store. Chalk it up to the amazing ability of web UI and JavaScript to make everything feel slow. They should have stuck with a native UI for that generation, I’d bet it lost them lots of sales. Practically unusable.
- garaetjjte 2y ago
  It was fine before. I think they changed it to the current abomination when PS4 launched?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - vundercind 2y ago
    I had one way before the PS4 and never found the store usable. Super slow, apparent OOM crashes resetting scroll state, all kinds of pain, for years prior to the PS4.
    - garaetjjte 2y ago
      That one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HOO6xg254A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HOO6xg254A Maybe it wasn't best thing from usability perspective but I don't remember performance problems with it.
      - vundercind 2y ago
        Oh wow—I don’t even remember that one. Wonder when they replaced it? I didn’t have one at launch, but didn’t think it was that long after that I picked it up.
        garaetjjte 2y ago
        It seems October 2012: https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/11/sony-unveils-redesigned-playstation-store https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/11/sony-unveils-redesig...
  - xattt 2y ago
    The store was originally a native app for the first couple of years. Whenever the Ribbon UI went to the one with sparkles, the store went to a crappy web UI that was unbearable to use. I love seeing bits and pieces of the original UI that were clinging on by necessity, namely the firmware upgrade screen. It was likely made immutable at the cost of UI updates.
    - garaetjjte 2y ago
      It seems sparkles were added in 3.0 FW in 2009, while store was replaced in 2012. I think FW update splash is not running the full OS and it only displays static image for simplicity, XMB never used static image as background.
    - musicale 2y ago
      Kind of the story of everything - responsive native app replaced by clunky web app.
  - Lammy 2y ago
    > It was fine before. Relevant PA: https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/02/joy-and-joy-unrelenting https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/02/joy-and-joy-un... The PS4-alike redesign was definitely way way worse though.
- Philpax 2y ago
  Unfortunately, the kinds of workloads Cell was good at had very little in common with what a web browser, especially of the time, needed. As always, it was a fascinating design incompatible with the needs of software and the market at large.
- amatecha 2y ago
  Oh? I really liked Xbox 360's "blades" dashboard UI. It was quite fast, and was quite simple. On every screen, there's a clear indication of what your controller buttons do, making it really quick to get around in. Some video of the dashboard in use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P5gTvXct30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P5gTvXct30
  - vel0city 2y ago
    The blades UI was quick, but I remember so many slow loads when pressing the Xbox button and pulling up the system menu. But I do agree, the blades UI design-wise was pretty good and achieved far more information density than the crossbar PlayStation UI. But when in-game I wouldn't describe any of the UI as speedy.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    I dunno what UI the 360 had by the time I got one (maybe after the One was out? Or just a little before) but 90% of every screen is ads.
    - etempleton 2y ago
      The 360 dashboard went through many variations and it generally got worse over time. The blades, which is what the console launched with, were excellent if not a bit simplistic.
- extraduder_ire 2y ago
  The XMB was initially used in the PSX, and later the PSP. It makes sense that retroarch copied it, since the PS3 was the first platform it was available on after someone got tired of porting emulators to the newly-hacked console one at a time.
lcfcjs6 2y ago
Not buying Sony products for having ads seems a little excessive. That being said, I don't spend much time in the menus, really, but from my experience they aren't very intrusive. Playstation has some of the most immersive single player experiences available today, on any platform. For the older gamers, who can't stand playing multiplayer games, the PS5 has been incredible.
- tomrod 2y ago
  The existence of ads isn't a huge deal. The existence of a backdoor into a console where arbitrary payloads not always in Sony's control can be pushed is a huge deal. Therefore, the existence of ads on a purchased platform is a canary in a coal mine for enshittification.
- kibwen 2y ago
  > Not buying Sony products for having ads seems a little excessive Right, I don't buy Sony products because they secretly installed rootkits on their users' machines which introduced security exploits, and then denied this fact, and then when forced to address it they just hid the rootkit better while also introducing a new rootkit that also harvested your personal information and introduced new exploitable security vulnerabilities of its own: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk... Don't be surprised at Sony's behavior. They're a sociopathic hypercorp, and just like all the other sociopathic hypercorps they'd grind you into a fine paste to make a dollar.
- Timon3 2y ago
  It's not just about the ads, as GP said, it's the user hostility. If I buy a console from them, every day they could decide that they deserve to wring even more money out of me, through more and more intrusive ads and dark patterns like described above. If I buy a game from them, every day they could decide that I won't be able to play it anymore tomorrow, like they tried with Helldivers 2 and Linux users. If I finish a game from them, when releasing a sequel they could decide that I won't be allowed to finish the story because players simply must log into their unnecessary social network which isn't even available on all platforms, like they did with GoW Ragnarok and Linux users. Why should anyone accept this?
gambiting 2y ago
>>It's a far cry from the awesome, snappy and easy to use Vita bubbles interface. Oh god, I didn't even think anyone could ever say such a sentence. After years with XMB on PS3 and PSP, the Vita's interface felt like a bit of a joke imho - I remember opening my Vita on launch day and literally thinking this is just wrong, I even googled if there's any way to change it to XMB interface. It was easy to use, sure, but it was just....too much. And once you had several games it just became a complete mess. The menus themselves were ok though.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
I had the same exact problem with my PS4. Having ads in the console is not a problem per se, the problem is that Sony can unilaterally decide to Alter The Deal without me having any recourse. It should not be acceptable business practice to do this.

vundercind 2y ago

PS3 was peak modern console UI. No-nonsense, easy, clear, fast. Was so happy when I first tried RetroArch to find that their default simply copied the PS3. The store was terrible, though. Their Cell “supercomputer” could play advanced 3D games, but couldn’t handle rendering a web store. Chalk it up to the amazing ability of web UI and JavaScript to make everything feel slow. They should have stuck with a native UI for that generation, I’d bet it lost them lots of sales. Practically unusable.

garaetjjte 2y ago
It was fine before. I think they changed it to the current abomination when PS4 launched?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- vundercind 2y ago
  I had one way before the PS4 and never found the store usable. Super slow, apparent OOM crashes resetting scroll state, all kinds of pain, for years prior to the PS4.
  - garaetjjte 2y ago
    That one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HOO6xg254A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HOO6xg254A Maybe it wasn't best thing from usability perspective but I don't remember performance problems with it.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      Oh wow—I don’t even remember that one. Wonder when they replaced it? I didn’t have one at launch, but didn’t think it was that long after that I picked it up.
      - garaetjjte 2y ago
        It seems October 2012: https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/11/sony-unveils-redesigned-playstation-store https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/11/sony-unveils-redesig...
- xattt 2y ago
  The store was originally a native app for the first couple of years. Whenever the Ribbon UI went to the one with sparkles, the store went to a crappy web UI that was unbearable to use. I love seeing bits and pieces of the original UI that were clinging on by necessity, namely the firmware upgrade screen. It was likely made immutable at the cost of UI updates.
  - garaetjjte 2y ago
    It seems sparkles were added in 3.0 FW in 2009, while store was replaced in 2012. I think FW update splash is not running the full OS and it only displays static image for simplicity, XMB never used static image as background.
  - musicale 2y ago
    Kind of the story of everything - responsive native app replaced by clunky web app.
- Lammy 2y ago
  > It was fine before. Relevant PA: https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/02/joy-and-joy-unrelenting https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/02/joy-and-joy-un... The PS4-alike redesign was definitely way way worse though.
Philpax 2y ago
Unfortunately, the kinds of workloads Cell was good at had very little in common with what a web browser, especially of the time, needed. As always, it was a fascinating design incompatible with the needs of software and the market at large.
amatecha 2y ago
Oh? I really liked Xbox 360's "blades" dashboard UI. It was quite fast, and was quite simple. On every screen, there's a clear indication of what your controller buttons do, making it really quick to get around in. Some video of the dashboard in use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P5gTvXct30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P5gTvXct30
- vel0city 2y ago
  The blades UI was quick, but I remember so many slow loads when pressing the Xbox button and pulling up the system menu. But I do agree, the blades UI design-wise was pretty good and achieved far more information density than the crossbar PlayStation UI. But when in-game I wouldn't describe any of the UI as speedy.
- vundercind 2y ago
  I dunno what UI the 360 had by the time I got one (maybe after the One was out? Or just a little before) but 90% of every screen is ads.
  - etempleton 2y ago
    The 360 dashboard went through many variations and it generally got worse over time. The blades, which is what the console launched with, were excellent if not a bit simplistic.
extraduder_ire 2y ago
The XMB was initially used in the PSX, and later the PSP. It makes sense that retroarch copied it, since the PS3 was the first platform it was available on after someone got tired of porting emulators to the newly-hacked console one at a time.

lcfcjs6 2y ago

Not buying Sony products for having ads seems a little excessive. That being said, I don't spend much time in the menus, really, but from my experience they aren't very intrusive. Playstation has some of the most immersive single player experiences available today, on any platform. For the older gamers, who can't stand playing multiplayer games, the PS5 has been incredible.

tomrod 2y ago
The existence of ads isn't a huge deal. The existence of a backdoor into a console where arbitrary payloads not always in Sony's control can be pushed is a huge deal. Therefore, the existence of ads on a purchased platform is a canary in a coal mine for enshittification.
kibwen 2y ago
> Not buying Sony products for having ads seems a little excessive Right, I don't buy Sony products because they secretly installed rootkits on their users' machines which introduced security exploits, and then denied this fact, and then when forced to address it they just hid the rootkit better while also introducing a new rootkit that also harvested your personal information and introduced new exploitable security vulnerabilities of its own: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk... Don't be surprised at Sony's behavior. They're a sociopathic hypercorp, and just like all the other sociopathic hypercorps they'd grind you into a fine paste to make a dollar.
Timon3 2y ago
It's not just about the ads, as GP said, it's the user hostility. If I buy a console from them, every day they could decide that they deserve to wring even more money out of me, through more and more intrusive ads and dark patterns like described above. If I buy a game from them, every day they could decide that I won't be able to play it anymore tomorrow, like they tried with Helldivers 2 and Linux users. If I finish a game from them, when releasing a sequel they could decide that I won't be allowed to finish the story because players simply must log into their unnecessary social network which isn't even available on all platforms, like they did with GoW Ragnarok and Linux users. Why should anyone accept this?

gambiting 2y ago

>>It's a far cry from the awesome, snappy and easy to use Vita bubbles interface. Oh god, I didn't even think anyone could ever say such a sentence. After years with XMB on PS3 and PSP, the Vita's interface felt like a bit of a joke imho - I remember opening my Vita on launch day and literally thinking this is just wrong, I even googled if there's any way to change it to XMB interface. It was easy to use, sure, but it was just....too much. And once you had several games it just became a complete mess. The menus themselves were ok though.

bigstrat2003 2y ago

I had the same exact problem with my PS4. Having ads in the console is not a problem per se, the problem is that Sony can unilaterally decide to Alter The Deal without me having any recourse. It should not be acceptable business practice to do this.