5 ms·

Do you have a proof for that?

big-green-man 2y ago
https://x.com/anthonywaldz/status/1840345290228047911#m https://x.com/anthonywaldz/status/1840345290228047911#m Several contributors cannot work on Godot anymore, hence the fork.
- blensor 2y ago
  According to Akien, at the time that fork was created the total number of blocked users on github was 3, as of this morning the total number of blocked users on github has increased to 5. So that doesn't really seem to be the reason why that fork was created. Maybe it's someone who was unhappy with the development in general and this was the reason to pull the trigger but overall this does look a bit off.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    No public members and there's a total of one PR merged in that's just as bizarre as this entire situation. But apparently the redot discord server is buzzing and this already has 1500 stars. More than I'd expect for a pure revenge server. Who knows what's going on at this point?
    - davidgerard 2y ago
      Grummz followers, he's been promoting it heavily
    - krapp 2y ago
      >More than I'd expect for a pure revenge server. Seems about right to me. Don't underestimate how organized and developed the anti-woke outrage machine is, and the fact that this blew up on Twitter when the "game engines are woke" meme was ascendant. It's a perfect tempest in a teacup. I mean, it's literally just a fork of Godot with a reskin at this point, that few people would even know about outside of the context of the controversy that led to it. What reason would is have for having as many stars other than hype and virtue signaling political alignment?
      - ultra_chad 2y ago
        Outrage machine? You mean people sincerely disagreeing with the hateful bullshit the Godot community managers and moderators have been saying publically?
        maxlin 2y ago
        It's a way to dehumanize the majority of people who'd like to keep politics out of professional game development. There's no way to argue that this whole controversy wasn't just made up on purpose by a radical CM. At some point companies have to learn having these people in control of the social media profiles isn't a good idea, and siding with them is even worse. This is peak unprofessionalism and trying to poison the community well.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        "on purpose" gives too much credit. No one ever knows when some random tweet suddenly becomes a hurricane. That's why PR tries to be as milqeutoast in posting as possible. Often never allowed to even reply to any but the most obvious questions woth the most canned responses (when is X comkng out. And not much more). But yes, the various issues with the community (even before the Unity implosion) and its design philosophies that show no hint of changing (which are fine, just not to my needs) is why I'm looking more into Stride for my OS engine instead. Or at least that was the plan until layoff season came. Hope 2025 gives me better stability so I can get back to my long term goals.
        maxlin 2y ago
        I see the argument in saying the CM would do that accidentally, but don't personally buy it. They are supposed to be professionals in this, yet their post implying a stance ("woke is good and relevant to game engines") of the whole Godot community is something that could only be considered "neutral" for people who insulate themselves from said large community. Ideally I'd like the devs of projects to handle their tweets themselves, even if they tweet less, and not be overly milktoasty about it. But the standard is in the Mariana Trench given for many companies a Golden Retriever would be a better CM. I hope Godot/Redot somehow survives this with the larger community intact. Btw, Stride is cool. As a C# game dev for 10 years, I love to see non-Unity C# engines actually being used/seriously considered!
  - tomachi 2y ago
    1 single blocked user would be enough to justify generating a fork, so 5 blocked users seems to verify somewhat, the true stat would be number of unaccepted pull requests. Assume a talented programmer who wishes to involve another programmer to help work on their (unaccepted by upstream and therefore mostly invisible) changes - github is then used to facilitate the work easier than setting up your own private repo. He can then approve that 3rd persons changes and move on to the next thing. The key to it is they control the choice to accept the pull request and "make it so". Years later, the potentially stalled upstream can "backport" the best changes from the fork if they have diverged too much to merge all of (the fork) changes into (to the main original) repo, and there is some reason to keep the stalled code alive (not saying it's stalled), or if it is still or more active probably "sideport" would be a better word, and if more advanced the best parts from Redot could be collected as a "patch" especially if it is not clear which is the most active. If Redot becomes the de factor dev version, and merging is too difficult, the original maintainer could ditch the old repo putting up a message and link to Godot non-Faggot version, fork Redot back into Godot, call it the release version, and call Redot the live public beta of the next version of Godot (this is my prediction of what will happen). Jacob Faggot was a Swedish scientist, civil servant, and surveyor. * this is a test of the anti-woke emergency broadcast system. Pump up the volume.
    - blensor 2y ago
      Anyone can make a fork, they don't need to justify it. I was just saying that the maybe unjustified blocking was limited to social media and did not extend to the actual development. The reason Juan has given for blocking were github comments that were such that he had to block them. I haven't seen them so I can't verify it but the fact that it was limited to very few accounts compared to what happened on social media leads me to believe that argument.
- despera 2y ago
  I cannot verify that this guy is a contributor to Godot. Nothing shows up on his main github account relevant to godot. Only with that new fork. Don't get me wrong, Godot did ban few accounts. Those totally weird hecklers who made issues and PR's trolling against basic human rights. Again, if you have a proof of a ban campaign of ACTUAL contributors, please show it.
  - ultra_chad 2y ago
    No weird hecklers and no one trolled against human rights, except for the people in charge of Godot trolling against the human right to free expression of course.
    - krapp 2y ago
      What free expression, specifically, was Godot "trolling against?" Or is your claim that one day, for no specific reason, they just started banning random people?
      - ultra_chad 2y ago
        Banning anyone for any reason from any service or platform is opposition to free expression, end of.
    - despera 2y ago
      Nobody threatened your very obscured sense of free expression. They didn't ban them from the platform (even that would be discussable), they simply stopped interacting with a bunch of very weird and intolerant people. It's their right to ignore toxic people.
      - ultra_chad 2y ago
        They were, in fact, banned from the platform. Nobody was weird, intolerant, or toxic. It is not their right to ignore anyone.

https://x.com/anthonywaldz/status/1840345290228047911#m https://x.com/anthonywaldz/status/1840345290228047911#m Several contributors cannot work on Godot anymore, hence the fork.

blensor 2y ago
According to Akien, at the time that fork was created the total number of blocked users on github was 3, as of this morning the total number of blocked users on github has increased to 5. So that doesn't really seem to be the reason why that fork was created. Maybe it's someone who was unhappy with the development in general and this was the reason to pull the trigger but overall this does look a bit off.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  No public members and there's a total of one PR merged in that's just as bizarre as this entire situation. But apparently the redot discord server is buzzing and this already has 1500 stars. More than I'd expect for a pure revenge server. Who knows what's going on at this point?
  - davidgerard 2y ago
    Grummz followers, he's been promoting it heavily
  - krapp 2y ago
    >More than I'd expect for a pure revenge server. Seems about right to me. Don't underestimate how organized and developed the anti-woke outrage machine is, and the fact that this blew up on Twitter when the "game engines are woke" meme was ascendant. It's a perfect tempest in a teacup. I mean, it's literally just a fork of Godot with a reskin at this point, that few people would even know about outside of the context of the controversy that led to it. What reason would is have for having as many stars other than hype and virtue signaling political alignment?
    - ultra_chad 2y ago
      Outrage machine? You mean people sincerely disagreeing with the hateful bullshit the Godot community managers and moderators have been saying publically?
      - maxlin 2y ago
        It's a way to dehumanize the majority of people who'd like to keep politics out of professional game development. There's no way to argue that this whole controversy wasn't just made up on purpose by a radical CM. At some point companies have to learn having these people in control of the social media profiles isn't a good idea, and siding with them is even worse. This is peak unprofessionalism and trying to poison the community well.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        "on purpose" gives too much credit. No one ever knows when some random tweet suddenly becomes a hurricane. That's why PR tries to be as milqeutoast in posting as possible. Often never allowed to even reply to any but the most obvious questions woth the most canned responses (when is X comkng out. And not much more). But yes, the various issues with the community (even before the Unity implosion) and its design philosophies that show no hint of changing (which are fine, just not to my needs) is why I'm looking more into Stride for my OS engine instead. Or at least that was the plan until layoff season came. Hope 2025 gives me better stability so I can get back to my long term goals.
        maxlin 2y ago
        I see the argument in saying the CM would do that accidentally, but don't personally buy it. They are supposed to be professionals in this, yet their post implying a stance ("woke is good and relevant to game engines") of the whole Godot community is something that could only be considered "neutral" for people who insulate themselves from said large community. Ideally I'd like the devs of projects to handle their tweets themselves, even if they tweet less, and not be overly milktoasty about it. But the standard is in the Mariana Trench given for many companies a Golden Retriever would be a better CM. I hope Godot/Redot somehow survives this with the larger community intact. Btw, Stride is cool. As a C# game dev for 10 years, I love to see non-Unity C# engines actually being used/seriously considered!
- tomachi 2y ago
  1 single blocked user would be enough to justify generating a fork, so 5 blocked users seems to verify somewhat, the true stat would be number of unaccepted pull requests. Assume a talented programmer who wishes to involve another programmer to help work on their (unaccepted by upstream and therefore mostly invisible) changes - github is then used to facilitate the work easier than setting up your own private repo. He can then approve that 3rd persons changes and move on to the next thing. The key to it is they control the choice to accept the pull request and "make it so". Years later, the potentially stalled upstream can "backport" the best changes from the fork if they have diverged too much to merge all of (the fork) changes into (to the main original) repo, and there is some reason to keep the stalled code alive (not saying it's stalled), or if it is still or more active probably "sideport" would be a better word, and if more advanced the best parts from Redot could be collected as a "patch" especially if it is not clear which is the most active. If Redot becomes the de factor dev version, and merging is too difficult, the original maintainer could ditch the old repo putting up a message and link to Godot non-Faggot version, fork Redot back into Godot, call it the release version, and call Redot the live public beta of the next version of Godot (this is my prediction of what will happen). Jacob Faggot was a Swedish scientist, civil servant, and surveyor. * this is a test of the anti-woke emergency broadcast system. Pump up the volume.
  - blensor 2y ago
    Anyone can make a fork, they don't need to justify it. I was just saying that the maybe unjustified blocking was limited to social media and did not extend to the actual development. The reason Juan has given for blocking were github comments that were such that he had to block them. I haven't seen them so I can't verify it but the fact that it was limited to very few accounts compared to what happened on social media leads me to believe that argument.
despera 2y ago
I cannot verify that this guy is a contributor to Godot. Nothing shows up on his main github account relevant to godot. Only with that new fork. Don't get me wrong, Godot did ban few accounts. Those totally weird hecklers who made issues and PR's trolling against basic human rights. Again, if you have a proof of a ban campaign of ACTUAL contributors, please show it.
- ultra_chad 2y ago
  No weird hecklers and no one trolled against human rights, except for the people in charge of Godot trolling against the human right to free expression of course.
  - krapp 2y ago
    What free expression, specifically, was Godot "trolling against?" Or is your claim that one day, for no specific reason, they just started banning random people?
    - ultra_chad 2y ago
      Banning anyone for any reason from any service or platform is opposition to free expression, end of.
  - despera 2y ago
    Nobody threatened your very obscured sense of free expression. They didn't ban them from the platform (even that would be discussable), they simply stopped interacting with a bunch of very weird and intolerant people. It's their right to ignore toxic people.
    - ultra_chad 2y ago
      They were, in fact, banned from the platform. Nobody was weird, intolerant, or toxic. It is not their right to ignore anyone.