4 ms·

The political angle here is obvious: elections in a month, and this could make a lot of people feel like the economy needs a strong leader. The union leader, H

by muglug 2y ago

The political angle here is obvious: elections in a month, and this could make a lot of people feel like the economy needs a strong leader. The union leader, Harold Daggett, is on record saying that Trump supports the union's aims: https://ilaunion.org/ila-president-harold-daggett-asks-ila-members-to-pray-for-former-president-donald-trump-and-victims-at-saturdays-pennsylvania-rally-recalls-productive-meeting-last-november-with-trump/ https://ilaunion.org/ila-president-harold-daggett-asks-ila-m...

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
> The union leader, Harold Daggett, is on record saying that Trump supports the union's aims: I wish the Democrats were on the side of the unions like they used to be...
- muglug 2y ago
  I wish the right wing in America hadn't spent 90 years demonising socialism, leading to the hollowing-out of unions in America. The US has one of the lowest union membership rates in the OECD, at 10%.
  - iphoneisbetter 2y ago
    [flagged]
- sfilmeyer 2y ago
  Democrats might not currently have Trump's level of protectionism and tariffs, but I think they're still better for unions. For example, the NLRB gets less effective as republicans put more anti-union folks on the board, let alone as the Trump appointees on the supreme court et al. reduce the ability of agencies to regulate.
- Uehreka 2y ago
  My brother is a union organizer, according to him Trump’s NLRB folks have been terrible for unions, Biden’s have been much better. I feel like I hear more of this “Republicans are more pro-union than Democrats” stuff from people who aren’t in unions than from people who are (also I’ll trust the word of boots-on-the-ground organizers over union leadership anyday).
- jmyeet 2y ago
  This comment is correct and people may not be aware of the history. This is mostly Bill Clinton's fault [1]. That was really a response to Ronald Reagan being incredibly effective at union-busting [2]. Since Bill Clinton's presidency, the Democratic Party has largely chased the same large and corporate donors the Republican Party has. On a lot of issues there is no sunlight between the positions of both parties, notably with foreign policy. For all his faults, Biden is actually the most pro-labor president since at least Jimmy Carter. This article claims since FDR [3]. I realize the bar is pretty low on this. Some notable examples: - The first sitting president to walk a picket line [4]; - Yes, Biden blocked the rail strike but later was credited with helping secure a deal for paid sick leave [5]; - Pro-labor efforts by the NLRB [6]; - More [7]. As much as the Democratic Party has abandoned unions, one cannot overstate the impact of the Red Scare. Decades of successful propaganda about the threat of communism has led us to where we are right now. [1]: https://lawcha.org/2016/11/23/bill-clinton-remade-democratic-party-abandoning-unions-working-class-whites/ https://lawcha.org/2016/11/23/bill-clinton-remade-democratic... [2]: https://onlabor.org/ronald-reagan-has-shaped-u-s-labor-law-for-decades/ https://onlabor.org/ronald-reagan-has-shaped-u-s-labor-law-f... [3]: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/biden-is-the-most-pro-labor-president-since-fdr-will-it-matter-in-november https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/biden-is-the-mo... [4]: https://aflcio.org/2023/9/27/service-solidarity-spotlight-biden-becomes-first-president-walk-strike-picket-line-joins https://aflcio.org/2023/9/27/service-solidarity-spotlight-bi... [5]: https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/2306... [6]: https://www.epi.org/publication/bidens-nlrb-restoring-rights/ https://www.epi.org/publication/bidens-nlrb-restoring-rights... [7]: https://www.govexec.com/management/2024/05/bidens-labor-report-card-historian-gives-union-joe-higher-grade-any-president-fdr/397002/ https://www.govexec.com/management/2024/05/bidens-labor-repo...
jmyeet 2y ago
> The political angle here is obvious: elections in a month Let's assume that statement is true for the sake of argument: can you tell me why that's a bad thing? Politicians need to earn votes. They're not owed votes. By anyone. What better time to exercise influence and exact concessions from politicians than an election? Your comment reminded me of the pervasive idea that governments giving money to poor people is somehow a moral hazard yet that's never the case when governments give money to wealthy people. Wealthy people never turn down money from the government. They actually demand it. So I have no idea of the political affiliations of the port union leadership or its member. I also don't care. I want people to be paid fairly for their labor regardless of their political leanings. And if the best way to do that is to exert political pressure in an election, that only seems logical.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  A few points… - The ILA workers are well paid today. Average somewhere around $150k and 1/3 of them are over $200k - The contract they want keeps base, starting wages low… - … coupled with generous OT allowances means they basically have guaranteed OT and low likelyhood of competition from new-comers - They also want a near total ban on automation - ILA President has met several times with Trump but refused any assistance from Biden. - ILA president, publicity people, and members are actively spreading fake news about shipping prices in order to garner sympathy from the general population. I’m usually pro-union and pro-labor, but this strike reeks of massive extortion at best and an attempt by the ILA president to sway the election (regardless of outcome for his members) at worst. His claims that Trump will be good for the union fly in the face of all we know about Trump and the people he places in cabinet level positions.
  - jmyeet 2y ago
    They make this much by working significant overtime [1]: > That top-tier hourly wage of $39 amounts to just over $81,000 annually, but dockworkers can make significantly more by taking on extra shifts. For example, according to a 2019-20 annual report from the Waterfront Commission of New York Harbor, about one-third of local longshoremen made $200,000 or more a year. > A more typical longshoreman's salary can exceed $100,000, but not without logging substantial overtime hours. Daggett, the ILA president, maintains that these higher earners work up to 100 hours a week. Working 100 hours a week to get to this level of salary hardly seems excessive to me. The real question is why is this necessary? are the ports not hiring enough people? Is the union blocking hiring to protect overtime? I don't know. But I'd like to see someone only needing to work ~40 hours a week to live comfortably and, given that the above is from the New York ports, one of the more expensive areas to live, that currently doesn't seem to be the case. > His claims that Trump will be good for the union fly in the face of all we know about Trump and the people he places in cabinet level positions. I agree. It's similar with the Teamsters president, Sean O'Brien. Politically, these union workers tend to be pretty split politically and that's really the Democrats' fault for abandoning organized labor. It's worth noting that the leadership is accountable to the members. The union president is elected. But regardless of their political leanings, I want them to get paid a living wage. I also have no problem with them, or anyone, exerting political pressure in an election. That's what elections are for. [1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-make-longshoreman-salary/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-make-l...
lotsofpulp 2y ago
Here’s some more lovely info about Harold Daggett: https://x.com/mualphaxi/status/1841148551646286258?s=46 https://x.com/mualphaxi/status/1841148551646286258?s=46 > He was acquitted on RICO charges after the main witness against him, mobster Lawrence Ricci, was found decomposing in a car trunk in New Jersey.

by muglug 2y ago

FollowingTheDao 2y ago

> The union leader, Harold Daggett, is on record saying that Trump supports the union's aims: I wish the Democrats were on the side of the unions like they used to be...

muglug 2y ago
I wish the right wing in America hadn't spent 90 years demonising socialism, leading to the hollowing-out of unions in America. The US has one of the lowest union membership rates in the OECD, at 10%.
- iphoneisbetter 2y ago
  [flagged]
sfilmeyer 2y ago
Democrats might not currently have Trump's level of protectionism and tariffs, but I think they're still better for unions. For example, the NLRB gets less effective as republicans put more anti-union folks on the board, let alone as the Trump appointees on the supreme court et al. reduce the ability of agencies to regulate.
Uehreka 2y ago
My brother is a union organizer, according to him Trump’s NLRB folks have been terrible for unions, Biden’s have been much better. I feel like I hear more of this “Republicans are more pro-union than Democrats” stuff from people who aren’t in unions than from people who are (also I’ll trust the word of boots-on-the-ground organizers over union leadership anyday).
jmyeet 2y ago
This comment is correct and people may not be aware of the history. This is mostly Bill Clinton's fault [1]. That was really a response to Ronald Reagan being incredibly effective at union-busting [2]. Since Bill Clinton's presidency, the Democratic Party has largely chased the same large and corporate donors the Republican Party has. On a lot of issues there is no sunlight between the positions of both parties, notably with foreign policy. For all his faults, Biden is actually the most pro-labor president since at least Jimmy Carter. This article claims since FDR [3]. I realize the bar is pretty low on this. Some notable examples: - The first sitting president to walk a picket line [4]; - Yes, Biden blocked the rail strike but later was credited with helping secure a deal for paid sick leave [5]; - Pro-labor efforts by the NLRB [6]; - More [7]. As much as the Democratic Party has abandoned unions, one cannot overstate the impact of the Red Scare. Decades of successful propaganda about the threat of communism has led us to where we are right now. [1]: https://lawcha.org/2016/11/23/bill-clinton-remade-democratic-party-abandoning-unions-working-class-whites/ https://lawcha.org/2016/11/23/bill-clinton-remade-democratic... [2]: https://onlabor.org/ronald-reagan-has-shaped-u-s-labor-law-for-decades/ https://onlabor.org/ronald-reagan-has-shaped-u-s-labor-law-f... [3]: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/biden-is-the-most-pro-labor-president-since-fdr-will-it-matter-in-november https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/biden-is-the-mo... [4]: https://aflcio.org/2023/9/27/service-solidarity-spotlight-biden-becomes-first-president-walk-strike-picket-line-joins https://aflcio.org/2023/9/27/service-solidarity-spotlight-bi... [5]: https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/2306... [6]: https://www.epi.org/publication/bidens-nlrb-restoring-rights/ https://www.epi.org/publication/bidens-nlrb-restoring-rights... [7]: https://www.govexec.com/management/2024/05/bidens-labor-report-card-historian-gives-union-joe-higher-grade-any-president-fdr/397002/ https://www.govexec.com/management/2024/05/bidens-labor-repo...

jmyeet 2y ago

> The political angle here is obvious: elections in a month Let's assume that statement is true for the sake of argument: can you tell me why that's a bad thing? Politicians need to earn votes. They're not owed votes. By anyone. What better time to exercise influence and exact concessions from politicians than an election? Your comment reminded me of the pervasive idea that governments giving money to poor people is somehow a moral hazard yet that's never the case when governments give money to wealthy people. Wealthy people never turn down money from the government. They actually demand it. So I have no idea of the political affiliations of the port union leadership or its member. I also don't care. I want people to be paid fairly for their labor regardless of their political leanings. And if the best way to do that is to exert political pressure in an election, that only seems logical.

alistairSH 2y ago
A few points… - The ILA workers are well paid today. Average somewhere around $150k and 1/3 of them are over $200k - The contract they want keeps base, starting wages low… - … coupled with generous OT allowances means they basically have guaranteed OT and low likelyhood of competition from new-comers - They also want a near total ban on automation - ILA President has met several times with Trump but refused any assistance from Biden. - ILA president, publicity people, and members are actively spreading fake news about shipping prices in order to garner sympathy from the general population. I’m usually pro-union and pro-labor, but this strike reeks of massive extortion at best and an attempt by the ILA president to sway the election (regardless of outcome for his members) at worst. His claims that Trump will be good for the union fly in the face of all we know about Trump and the people he places in cabinet level positions.
- jmyeet 2y ago
  They make this much by working significant overtime [1]: > That top-tier hourly wage of $39 amounts to just over $81,000 annually, but dockworkers can make significantly more by taking on extra shifts. For example, according to a 2019-20 annual report from the Waterfront Commission of New York Harbor, about one-third of local longshoremen made $200,000 or more a year. > A more typical longshoreman's salary can exceed $100,000, but not without logging substantial overtime hours. Daggett, the ILA president, maintains that these higher earners work up to 100 hours a week. Working 100 hours a week to get to this level of salary hardly seems excessive to me. The real question is why is this necessary? are the ports not hiring enough people? Is the union blocking hiring to protect overtime? I don't know. But I'd like to see someone only needing to work ~40 hours a week to live comfortably and, given that the above is from the New York ports, one of the more expensive areas to live, that currently doesn't seem to be the case. > His claims that Trump will be good for the union fly in the face of all we know about Trump and the people he places in cabinet level positions. I agree. It's similar with the Teamsters president, Sean O'Brien. Politically, these union workers tend to be pretty split politically and that's really the Democrats' fault for abandoning organized labor. It's worth noting that the leadership is accountable to the members. The union president is elected. But regardless of their political leanings, I want them to get paid a living wage. I also have no problem with them, or anyone, exerting political pressure in an election. That's what elections are for. [1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-make-longshoreman-salary/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-do-dock-workers-make-l...

lotsofpulp 2y ago

Here’s some more lovely info about Harold Daggett: https://x.com/mualphaxi/status/1841148551646286258?s=46 https://x.com/mualphaxi/status/1841148551646286258?s=46 > He was acquitted on RICO charges after the main witness against him, mobster Lawrence Ricci, was found decomposing in a car trunk in New Jersey.