4 ms·

Well, life sucks. Here in Ohio our tax dollars fund vouchers that can be used to pay tuition at religious schools.

EasyMark 2y ago
Meanwhile I bet those schools are exempt from standardized tests because they know the students (most) would flunk them. That’s the way it works here in Texas, there is no oversight or feedback that home schooled or private school kids actually meet any kind of standards at all. Now the governor wants the same type of vouchers and he was -heavily- “inspired” by money from charter school/religious school owning billionaires.
- seneca 2y ago
  Home schooled children out perform government schooled children across the board. That's not even a disputed point.
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  The feedback is provided by the market mechanism. Private schools and charter schools that don't do a good job would fail to retain and attract students, and shut down. For government-run schools, most of the students have little or no choice. Standardized tests (like SBAC) show poor results in California (most kids fail to meet grade level standards in the test), but parents have little ability to change how school districts are run.
rahimnathwani 2y ago
Here in San Francisco: - Our tax dollars fund government-run schools that cost an $26k per student per year. Fewer than half the students at those schools meet or exceed grade standards for Math and English. - The median cost of a religious school is about half the cost of government-run schools: https://x.com/RahimNathwani/status/1840965145604079997 https://x.com/RahimNathwani/status/1840965145604079997 - Parents who choose to send their children to non-government-run schools get no vouchers: we pay taxes to fund government employees, and then use what's left to pay for the schools our children need.
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
  Are those other schools half the cost because they exclude anyone with disabilities or poor upbringings and just cream off the easy students? If so then you are enthusiastically cheering for kids to be thrown on the scrapheap to save you a few bucks. And using religion as a cover for it, which only makes it worse.
  - rahimnathwani 2y ago
    No. They're half the cost because they don't spend half their money paying for a central bureaucracy. They spend almost all their money on buildings and teachers.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- sharkjacobs 2y ago
  I'm not from San Francisco, I don't have a horse in this race, I was just looking over the link that you posted and it doesn't seem to support what you're saying at all - The link you posted doesn't talk about public schools at all, only private school tuition. - This 2024 census.gov report[1] says that San Francisco public schools cost $23,654 per student - According to graph on the link that you posted only 12% of private schools in San Francisco charge < $25000 annual tuition - According to the article from the link you posted religious schools make up 48% of private schools in California, so mathematically, at least 3/4 religious schools charge more in annual tuition than a year of public school costs (according to census.gov) - According to the article from the link you posted, religious schools offer special lower rates for families who belong to the parish, meaning the "cost per student" is even higher than tuition [1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/public-school-spending-per-pupil.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/public-s...
  - rahimnathwani 2y ago
    > The link you posted doesn't talk about public schools at all, only private school tuition. Yes, that was to show the cost of religious schools which is the type GP was talking about. I did not provide a source for the $26k cost of public schools. > According to graph on the link that you posted only 12% > of private schools in San Francisco charge < $25000 > annual tuition Yes, the charts on the bottom half of that graph show tuition for parochial (religious) schools, which was GP's topic. Ignore the top half (non-religious) as it's not relevant to this discussion. The median sticker price for parochial schools in San Francisco is: Grades K-12: $10.9k Grade 3: $10.4k Grade 8: $10.9k Grade 12: $27.0k All of the above are calculated by weighting each school equally, as I don't have access to per-school per-grade student counts. Feel free to recalculate these. They're based solely on the data the SF Chronicle intern collected. > This 2024 census.gov report[1] says that San Francisco > public schools cost $23,654 per student Well, that 2024 report is based on old data from 2022. That's two years old! Let's look at more recent data. SFUSD's operating budget for 2024-2025 is $1.3 billion (https://www.sfusd.edu/about-sfusd/sfusd-news/press-releases/2024-06-27-sf-board-education-adopts-plan-and-budget-2024-25-school-year https://www.sfusd.edu/about-sfusd/sfusd-news/press-releases/...). It has 48,000 students (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/sfusd-closures-budget-school-year-19652101.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/sfusd-closures-b...). That's $27k per student per year, which is more than it was the last time I looked! > According to the article from the link you posted, > religious schools offer special lower rates for families > who belong to the parish, meaning the "cost per student" > is even higher than tuition I don't have extensive data to back this up, but from anecdotes I've heard it's swings and roundabouts. Some families pay more than sticker price, and others pay less.

Meanwhile I bet those schools are exempt from standardized tests because they know the students (most) would flunk them. That’s the way it works here in Texas, there is no oversight or feedback that home schooled or private school kids actually meet any kind of standards at all. Now the governor wants the same type of vouchers and he was -heavily- “inspired” by money from charter school/religious school owning billionaires.

seneca 2y ago
Home schooled children out perform government schooled children across the board. That's not even a disputed point.
rahimnathwani 2y ago
The feedback is provided by the market mechanism. Private schools and charter schools that don't do a good job would fail to retain and attract students, and shut down. For government-run schools, most of the students have little or no choice. Standardized tests (like SBAC) show poor results in California (most kids fail to meet grade level standards in the test), but parents have little ability to change how school districts are run.

rahimnathwani 2y ago

Here in San Francisco: - Our tax dollars fund government-run schools that cost an $26k per student per year. Fewer than half the students at those schools meet or exceed grade standards for Math and English. - The median cost of a religious school is about half the cost of government-run schools: https://x.com/RahimNathwani/status/1840965145604079997 https://x.com/RahimNathwani/status/1840965145604079997 - Parents who choose to send their children to non-government-run schools get no vouchers: we pay taxes to fund government employees, and then use what's left to pay for the schools our children need.

ZeroGravitas 2y ago
Are those other schools half the cost because they exclude anyone with disabilities or poor upbringings and just cream off the easy students? If so then you are enthusiastically cheering for kids to be thrown on the scrapheap to save you a few bucks. And using religion as a cover for it, which only makes it worse.
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  No. They're half the cost because they don't spend half their money paying for a central bureaucracy. They spend almost all their money on buildings and teachers.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
sharkjacobs 2y ago
I'm not from San Francisco, I don't have a horse in this race, I was just looking over the link that you posted and it doesn't seem to support what you're saying at all - The link you posted doesn't talk about public schools at all, only private school tuition. - This 2024 census.gov report[1] says that San Francisco public schools cost $23,654 per student - According to graph on the link that you posted only 12% of private schools in San Francisco charge < $25000 annual tuition - According to the article from the link you posted religious schools make up 48% of private schools in California, so mathematically, at least 3/4 religious schools charge more in annual tuition than a year of public school costs (according to census.gov) - According to the article from the link you posted, religious schools offer special lower rates for families who belong to the parish, meaning the "cost per student" is even higher than tuition [1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/public-school-spending-per-pupil.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/public-s...
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  > The link you posted doesn't talk about public schools at all, only private school tuition. Yes, that was to show the cost of religious schools which is the type GP was talking about. I did not provide a source for the $26k cost of public schools. > According to graph on the link that you posted only 12% > of private schools in San Francisco charge < $25000 > annual tuition Yes, the charts on the bottom half of that graph show tuition for parochial (religious) schools, which was GP's topic. Ignore the top half (non-religious) as it's not relevant to this discussion. The median sticker price for parochial schools in San Francisco is: Grades K-12: $10.9k Grade 3: $10.4k Grade 8: $10.9k Grade 12: $27.0k All of the above are calculated by weighting each school equally, as I don't have access to per-school per-grade student counts. Feel free to recalculate these. They're based solely on the data the SF Chronicle intern collected. > This 2024 census.gov report[1] says that San Francisco > public schools cost $23,654 per student Well, that 2024 report is based on old data from 2022. That's two years old! Let's look at more recent data. SFUSD's operating budget for 2024-2025 is $1.3 billion (https://www.sfusd.edu/about-sfusd/sfusd-news/press-releases/2024-06-27-sf-board-education-adopts-plan-and-budget-2024-25-school-year https://www.sfusd.edu/about-sfusd/sfusd-news/press-releases/...). It has 48,000 students (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/sfusd-closures-budget-school-year-19652101.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/sfusd-closures-b...). That's $27k per student per year, which is more than it was the last time I looked! > According to the article from the link you posted, > religious schools offer special lower rates for families > who belong to the parish, meaning the "cost per student" > is even higher than tuition I don't have extensive data to back this up, but from anecdotes I've heard it's swings and roundabouts. Some families pay more than sticker price, and others pay less.