6 ms·

> However, irrespective of whether one can afford (or is willing to pay for) a subscription, the key lesson from all this is that, if automakers have their way,

> However, irrespective of whether one can afford (or is willing to pay for) a subscription, the key lesson from all this is that, if automakers have their way, the car ownership experience is going to change dramatically in the near future. Yep, unless people stop buying cars that offer these features, it's just going to get worse and worse. But here's the thing: they won't.

Justsignedup 2y ago
Can't stop buying if no options exist. I need a car. Toyota has done this for a while. BMW has IAP heaters in chairs. Etc. Etc. Etc.
- bathtub365 2y ago
  BMW stopped charging monthly for heated seats over a year ago
- more_corn 2y ago
  There are hundreds of options without subscriptions.
- frereubu 2y ago
  This is the crux of the bigger picture. I'm pretty sure all carmakers want to do this and they'll introduce it gradually, keeping an eye on each other to make sure that they're all doing it roughly in tandem so the vast majority of people just throw their hands up and accept it. I'm not sure what the solution is though. I can't imagine legislation working. Something along the lines of "if the funcionality doesn't change you can't charge a subscription for it" would probably be met with claims that because it's all software controlled the overhead of security udpates to the software requires some kind of recurring fee.
- riscy 2y ago
  US tariffs were put in to prevent Chinese cars from competing here too.
  - rangerelf 2y ago
    It's not competition if it's actually dumping.
- karaterobot 2y ago
  I agree that people will think they don't have a choice, and will even act like they don't. But the reality is that there are plenty of new vehicles without subscriptions or in-app purchases, and even more used vehicles without them. Those are all options. With this process, it's always a series of choices, where choosing what the company wants is slightly easier than not choosing it, but it's still a choice.
  - scottLobster 2y ago
    For now. Give it a few decades when all those used cars are no longer on the market. We're already entering the age where media is solely released on streaming platforms with no legal physical copies ever produced, let alone available to consumers. Cars will go much the same way. The only way to counter it would be some kind of legally enforceable "right to ownership", which could be argued is the next step after "right to repair". Relying on consumer choice is a libertarian fantasy, right up there with corporate self-regulation. Yes, both exist and have substantial impacts, but they lack the teeth to create sustainable economic systems that support a prosperous middle class. Only well-written government regulation can do the latter.
    - karaterobot 2y ago
      If you give up in advance of an expected loss, you create that loss, whether your expectation was right or wrong. On the other hand, if people didn't buy these vehicles, the companies who sell them would have to stop or be outcompeted. If, in the future, companies again try the same tactic, rinse and repeat until they go away. I think we both agree about what the outcome will be, but I am placing much of the blame on the above attitude and behavior by consumers, rather than on some sort of invisible force of the universe that leads towards enshittification. We're the enshittifiers.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        You can't rely on uncoordinated action from individual consumers to solve a problem that is being created by coordinated, collaborating companies. If BMW came out with a car that gave you an electric shock every 5 minutes of driving, people would just not buy BMW and the problem would eventually work itself out. But if every car manufacturer slowly introduced it and normalized it, to the point where soon no other alternatives exist, then we'd all just accept it and buy cars that shock us.
more_corn 2y ago
Everyone who knows will and that’s all it takes.
glimshe 2y ago
I have a Mazda but simply don't use the paid wireless features. It works fine and is still an incredible value. BTW I think they charge for this feature because it requires the car to be connected to the Internet for it work, as it receives the remote start command from the Internet (so it works if you are far from the car). The Internet connection is certainly not free for Mazda.
- onewheeltom 2y ago
  But the article said that remote start used to work from the keyfob. Which does not require internet. So they replaced a working option that cost them nothing with a paid option that required internet.
  - RajT88 2y ago
    That is the way of things more and more these days. Insert yourself in the middle of a transaction and charge a toll. The transaction in this case is remotely starting your car.
- maxerickson 2y ago
  If covering the cost were the issue, they could probably easily cover remote access features for like $25 a year (and easily get the contracts to do it). Maybe not stuff that uses more data at that price.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  Why can’t they just use an RF widget like we’ve had for 30 years? No subscription needed.
  - glimshe 2y ago
    At least in the case of my Mazda, this feature and a few others are activated from a phone. You can not only remote start but set an AC temperature from far away. To be clear, I'm not trying to defend Mazda... I'm simply trying to explain the rationale behind the charge.
- 2y ago

Justsignedup 2y ago

Can't stop buying if no options exist. I need a car. Toyota has done this for a while. BMW has IAP heaters in chairs. Etc. Etc. Etc.

bathtub365 2y ago
BMW stopped charging monthly for heated seats over a year ago
more_corn 2y ago
There are hundreds of options without subscriptions.
frereubu 2y ago
This is the crux of the bigger picture. I'm pretty sure all carmakers want to do this and they'll introduce it gradually, keeping an eye on each other to make sure that they're all doing it roughly in tandem so the vast majority of people just throw their hands up and accept it. I'm not sure what the solution is though. I can't imagine legislation working. Something along the lines of "if the funcionality doesn't change you can't charge a subscription for it" would probably be met with claims that because it's all software controlled the overhead of security udpates to the software requires some kind of recurring fee.
riscy 2y ago
US tariffs were put in to prevent Chinese cars from competing here too.
- rangerelf 2y ago
  It's not competition if it's actually dumping.
karaterobot 2y ago
I agree that people will think they don't have a choice, and will even act like they don't. But the reality is that there are plenty of new vehicles without subscriptions or in-app purchases, and even more used vehicles without them. Those are all options. With this process, it's always a series of choices, where choosing what the company wants is slightly easier than not choosing it, but it's still a choice.
- scottLobster 2y ago
  For now. Give it a few decades when all those used cars are no longer on the market. We're already entering the age where media is solely released on streaming platforms with no legal physical copies ever produced, let alone available to consumers. Cars will go much the same way. The only way to counter it would be some kind of legally enforceable "right to ownership", which could be argued is the next step after "right to repair". Relying on consumer choice is a libertarian fantasy, right up there with corporate self-regulation. Yes, both exist and have substantial impacts, but they lack the teeth to create sustainable economic systems that support a prosperous middle class. Only well-written government regulation can do the latter.
  - karaterobot 2y ago
    If you give up in advance of an expected loss, you create that loss, whether your expectation was right or wrong. On the other hand, if people didn't buy these vehicles, the companies who sell them would have to stop or be outcompeted. If, in the future, companies again try the same tactic, rinse and repeat until they go away. I think we both agree about what the outcome will be, but I am placing much of the blame on the above attitude and behavior by consumers, rather than on some sort of invisible force of the universe that leads towards enshittification. We're the enshittifiers.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      You can't rely on uncoordinated action from individual consumers to solve a problem that is being created by coordinated, collaborating companies. If BMW came out with a car that gave you an electric shock every 5 minutes of driving, people would just not buy BMW and the problem would eventually work itself out. But if every car manufacturer slowly introduced it and normalized it, to the point where soon no other alternatives exist, then we'd all just accept it and buy cars that shock us.

more_corn 2y ago

Everyone who knows will and that’s all it takes.

glimshe 2y ago

I have a Mazda but simply don't use the paid wireless features. It works fine and is still an incredible value. BTW I think they charge for this feature because it requires the car to be connected to the Internet for it work, as it receives the remote start command from the Internet (so it works if you are far from the car). The Internet connection is certainly not free for Mazda.

onewheeltom 2y ago
But the article said that remote start used to work from the keyfob. Which does not require internet. So they replaced a working option that cost them nothing with a paid option that required internet.
- RajT88 2y ago
  That is the way of things more and more these days. Insert yourself in the middle of a transaction and charge a toll. The transaction in this case is remotely starting your car.
maxerickson 2y ago
If covering the cost were the issue, they could probably easily cover remote access features for like $25 a year (and easily get the contracts to do it). Maybe not stuff that uses more data at that price.
EasyMark 2y ago
Why can’t they just use an RF widget like we’ve had for 30 years? No subscription needed.
- glimshe 2y ago
  At least in the case of my Mazda, this feature and a few others are activated from a phone. You can not only remote start but set an AC temperature from far away. To be clear, I'm not trying to defend Mazda... I'm simply trying to explain the rationale behind the charge.
2y ago